PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

[NiteHawk]

I haven't a clue how half orcs do at 25, but I can point to Jr Koth where the champion for 3 weeks was a half orc and this last week another half orc destroyed everything in its path to only lose to the champion half orc. I've heard people say clerics are op, I've yet to personally see them do anything in an event outside of losing though.

Though people might not be talking about spellcasters being bad, that might be due to everyone not playing them. Recently my 24 barabarian was able to win an event filled with lvl 25 characters because my 900 hp barbarian was able to out damage the 2 spellcasters it went up against, the other person being a ranger and that class is a complete joke. Me beating spellcasters has nothing to do with my dex or their strength. As well, those 24 events normally have 2-3 spellcasters in them, which have also been able to beat the half orcs with 14 and under wisdom.

Ninja's themselves seem a bit insane. 2 stamina level 1, get 4 stamina by level 13 where every other class gets 4th stam at 25.

Necromancer - lvl 16 - 161 damage
You cast a red beam at a bullfrog for 57 points of damage!
You cast a red beam at a bullfrog for 53 points of damage!
You cast a red beam at a bullfrog for 51 points of damage!

Ninja - lvl 15 - 283 damage (plain wicked staves)
You attack a bullfrog with your wicked staff for 61 points of damage!
You attack a bullfrog with your wicked staff for 58 points of damage!
You launch into a ROUNDHOUSE KICK against a bullfrog for 105 points of damage!
You attack a bullfrog with your wicked staff for 59 points of damage!

Of course these are low levels, so damage will probably change later on. It would be helpful to see a bunch of classes/races actual damage and go from there rather than a bunch of he said she said guess work changes on the fly.

Level 16 beam only doing 57 damage? Is it on div against you. I feel like your int is low too or something. Barbarians and knights as I said are getting a damage change, I feel they are far to high atm. I don't want to adjust spell damage just yet until it's all brought in. Slayers are getting a slight nerf too.

Clerics not going to win in PVP 1vs1 if it can't heal. That's just how it is.

Yeah, ninjas have lower damage, they have +1 attack though. That's how they work too, won't be changing though there damage could change depending on how everything goes. I personally think they are fine and the issue lies with the other classes dealing too much damage.


My level 16 necro with 22 int (not even max int).. Leech is okay here too but the minimum damage is lower atm, and max is higher for a couple levels because BEAM damage gets capped after level 16 or 18 while leech progresses to level 25

You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 117 points of damage!
You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 103 points of damage!
You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 106 points of damage!
You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 117 points of damage!

You cast leech at a earth dummy for 126 points of damage!
You leeched 28 hit points!
You cast leech at a earth dummy for 97 points of damage!
You leeched 24 hit points!
You cast leech at a earth dummy for 126 points of damage!
You leeched 42 hit points!
You cast leech at a earth dummy for 115 points of damage!
You leeched 28 hit points!

Magic damage can be a next look, but doing too much at once is a bad thing to do.

[Terron]

a few posts ago u stated ninjas do more damage than half orc cavs, w/o even factoring a roundhouse. now u are saying they do less damage. they could hit 2 rh and 3 normal hits in a single round technically. that almost rounds 2 mages(gnome/elf). not saying it would happen, but i think they are the best damage output class pvm by far even against div it seems at times. judgeing by the pks on some of those saurians they either slaughters noobs for endless hours or they do serious pvp damage to.

mage i would argue is the worst because it seems rather hard for them to hit anything steadily unless its severely under level(not counting lvl 1-3 when they are smashing 37s..). it starts at 4 and goes to about lvl 19 on a gnome 23 int. the unaffects damage even my optimism

i dunno maybe an offhand item to help mages

level 8-wand 5% spell penetration lower level item
level 16-bracer - 1 armor 2% spell penetration
level 20-buckler - 2 armor , +2% block
level 25-spellbook - 2% div damage, 5% spell penetration(allows a +3 ember for 5%)


sorry for the off topic part, just a thought that hit me

[NiteHawk]

a few posts ago u stated ninjas do more damage than half orc cavs, w/o even factoring a roundhouse. now u are saying they do less damage. they could hit 2 rh and 3 normal hits in a single round technically. that almost rounds 2 mages(gnome/elf). not saying it would happen, but i think they are the best damage output class pvm by far even against div it seems at times. judgeing by the pks on some of those saurians they either slaughters noobs for endless hours or they do serious pvp damage to.

mage i would argue is the worst because it seems rather hard for them to hit anything steadily unless its severely under level(not counting lvl 1-3 when they are smashing 37s..). it starts at 4 and goes to about lvl 19 on a gnome 23 int. the unaffects damage even my optimism

i dunno maybe an offhand item to help mages

level 8-wand 5% spell penetration lower level item
level 16-bracer - 1 armor 2% spell penetration
level 20-buckler - 2 armor , +2% block
level 25-spellbook - 2% div damage, 5% spell penetration(allows a +3 ember for 5%)


sorry for the off topic part, just a thought that hit me

They do less damage but have more attacks. That is what I said. That is valid. There is nothing I said there that has to do with overall damage, as ninjas do more if they hit all 5 obviously. But I'm not going to give them MORE damage and an EXTRA attack. They do LESS damage WITH an extra attack that equates to more damage in the end.

Again for magic stuff guys I'd want to keep it for another update after this one though 8)

[Terron]

im not asking you to change anything, was a little confusing is all. well maybe u can make mages unaffect on mobs less in that mage update

[NiteHawk]

im not asking you to change anything, was a little confusing is all. well maybe u can make mages unaffect on mobs less in that mage update

Was just stating 8)

In terms of mage unaffect rate, that is something I can look for mobs too, I'm not sure overall how bad it is, something that would need testing for a little bit before hand though. I could see unaffect rate being different on mobs just like it is for physical PVP/PVE.

[Reaper]

I never had a problem with unaffects while lvling Reaper. I mean they happen, but no worse than any other class when you factor in misses. As you get higher lvl they happen less and less, just like physical classes. I think mages and their damage is fine personally.

[Man]

I haven't a clue how half orcs do at 25, but I can point to Jr Koth where the champion for 3 weeks was a half orc and this last week another half orc destroyed everything in its path to only lose to the champion half orc. I've heard people say clerics are op, I've yet to personally see them do anything in an event outside of losing though.

Though people might not be talking about spellcasters being bad, that might be due to everyone not playing them. Recently my 24 barabarian was able to win an event filled with lvl 25 characters because my 900 hp barbarian was able to out damage the 2 spellcasters it went up against, the other person being a ranger and that class is a complete joke. Me beating spellcasters has nothing to do with my dex or their strength. As well, those 24 events normally have 2-3 spellcasters in them, which have also been able to beat the half orcs with 14 and under wisdom.

Ninja's themselves seem a bit insane. 2 stamina level 1, get 4 stamina by level 13 where every other class gets 4th stam at 25.

Necromancer - lvl 16 - 161 damage
You cast a red beam at a bullfrog for 57 points of damage!
You cast a red beam at a bullfrog for 53 points of damage!
You cast a red beam at a bullfrog for 51 points of damage!

Ninja - lvl 15 - 283 damage (plain wicked staves)
You attack a bullfrog with your wicked staff for 61 points of damage!
You attack a bullfrog with your wicked staff for 58 points of damage!
You launch into a ROUNDHOUSE KICK against a bullfrog for 105 points of damage!
You attack a bullfrog with your wicked staff for 59 points of damage!

Of course these are low levels, so damage will probably change later on. It would be helpful to see a bunch of classes/races actual damage and go from there rather than a bunch of he said she said guess work changes on the fly.

Level 16 beam only doing 57 damage? Is it on div against you. I feel like your int is low too or something. Barbarians and knights as I said are getting a damage change, I feel they are far to high atm. I don't want to adjust spell damage just yet until it's all brought in. Slayers are getting a slight nerf too.

Clerics not going to win in PVP 1vs1 if it can't heal. That's just how it is.

Yeah, ninjas have lower damage, they have +1 attack though. That's how they work too, won't be changing though there damage could change depending on how everything goes. I personally think they are fine and the issue lies with the other classes dealing too much damage.


My level 16 necro with 22 int (not even max int).. Leech is okay here too but the minimum damage is lower atm, and max is higher for a couple levels because BEAM damage gets capped after level 16 or 18 while leech progresses to level 25

You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 117 points of damage!
You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 103 points of damage!
You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 106 points of damage!
You cast a purple beam at a earth dummy for 117 points of damage!

You cast leech at a earth dummy for 126 points of damage!
You leeched 28 hit points!
You cast leech at a earth dummy for 97 points of damage!
You leeched 24 hit points!
You cast leech at a earth dummy for 126 points of damage!
You leeched 42 hit points!
You cast leech at a earth dummy for 115 points of damage!
You leeched 28 hit points!

Magic damage can be a next look, but doing too much at once is a bad thing to do.

I'm basing my reasoning on having leveled an 18 strength barbarian who hits for over 600 in 3 stamina. I have a dwarf Necromancer, which I made thinking it would be like a warmage, didn't work out as even with 20 strength it did pretty much no attack damage. Having changed the stats, it has 18 intelligence. I would guess the response might be... well you have 18 intelligence that's why your damage sucks, but it's intelligence is the same as the barbarians strength.

So then my qualm is that a hitter can have a bunch of different builds and still hit hard where a spellcaster can't. I don't know the formula for damage or for spells, but it seems intelligence might matter more than strength.

I would also like to state class modifiar on attacking might be too much. I feel like with 20 strength a Necromancer should be able to hit far harder than what it was, even if it's only a necromancer. Opens up the posibility of different builds.

[Folder]

INT definitely matters more. Or at least scales differently and isn't as good until you are 20+. I get what you are saying about an 18 int mage not being great. I think the issue there is INT affects not only damage but pierce rate as well. On an 18 str melee class you are going to have high agi so at least you hit more to make up for lower damage.

Not sure what the answer is here. Total rebalance of INT? If INT had no bearing on unaffect rate and only defender's WIS was taken into account, maybe? Not sure because I haven't put much thought into it.

As for the warmage bit I hear but that sounds more like a new class idea to me, and I believe multiple variations have been proposed.

[Man]

INT definitely matters more. Or at least scales differently and isn't as good until you are 20+. I get what you are saying about an 18 int mage not being great. I think the issue there is INT affects not only damage but pierce rate as well. On an 18 str melee class you are going to have high agi so at least you hit more to make up for lower damage. That all being stated, if someone wants to dump a bunch of points in to strength on a mage for some reason, be nice if they weren't still completely gimped.

Not sure what the answer is here. Total rebalance of INT? If INT had no bearing on unaffect rate and only defender's WIS was taken into account, maybe? Not sure because I haven't put much thought into it.

As for the warmage bit I hear but that sounds more like a new class idea to me, and I believe multiple variations have been proposed.

I've also heard people state warmage as well, however as the stats are currently set up with points, I see no actual way a warmage can work in this game. Fighters only need 3 stats and are open to more creative stat allocation, spellcasters need 4 stats maxed to be decent in Endurance, Agility, Intelligence, and Wisdom. Adding in Strength just isn't and option. They'll need 5 stats which you just can't do.


Also, agility seems to matter far less when comparing the agility of 2 classes compared to how intelligence and wisdom match up. It might be my limited experience going up against them, however my lvl 24 character with 20 wisdom hasnt lost to a spell caster regardless of level due to spellcasters normally only able to hit me with 1 spell per round. It seems like decent wisdom is a super high trump to intelligence.

Unlike fighting classes, we also don't have a glass canon spell casting class either. Say, like a faerie which might be like 13 23 15 24 23 15

[Folder]

You mean glass cannon race? I don't think there is one for melee either, unless you consider an orc against a chanter a glass cannon which it kinda is. I'm all for racial diversion and another high INT class. Balancing this game is rough though.

Re: Wisdom and magic resist. It does seem to besomething like 10 = nothing, 12 = shit, 14 = still shit, 16 = you start to unaffect some but still get eaten, 18 = you're doing moderately ok, 20 = you probably win, 22+ = god tier. The scaling does seem a bit wonky to me but I don't have exact numbers.