PVP Dodge/Hitrate/Damage/HP

[Terron]

u cant really say the gnome thing, once you put 22 agility on it and compare it to a half orc its close to the same damage overall. who cares if it only hits for half as much it hits twice as often. (this is based on solo exping characters to 18)

i literally had no problem using a halfling assassin anywhere ingame once i had 3 stamina, it hits almost everytime. but horc didnt but horc still hit insanely more than a sorc. sorcs horcs and stuff benefit more than a ling in a party, they get to skip most of the failure levels, which im hoping will be explained on wiki.

dex is a huge factor in melee characters, mages sadly don't have that its int with a backup of more int with a skill bonus of even more int.

@thi the only problem i seen with assassins is the moving back and forth, move move hide backstab move move hide backstab takes more time. infact with a timer set i was noticing with my 3 stam assassin that every 4 attacks with my move move hide backstab move and repeat, i was losing 1 round in comparison to my warrior just moving hitting 2x and moving again. and even more to my monk who just stands there tapping macroes. im assuming it affects pvp a bit if it even lasts that long.

[NiteHawk]

u cant really say the gnome thing, once you put 22 agility on it and compare it to a half orc its close to the same damage overall. who cares if it only hits for half as much it hits twice as often. (this is based on solo exping characters to 18)

Yes I can. Gnome fighters are terrible

There are plenty high AGI characters that have wisdom if thats what you want, and have STR too.

[NiteHawk]

I modified unaffect and based it off INT. If you have high wisdom you still gain high MR obviously. The actual attack formula has a half effect rate loss than it currently has.

I.E.
23 int vs 20 wis elf monk
Current Formula: 64% wisdom resistance.
New Formula: 64% wisdom resistance

20 int vs 20 wis elf monk:
Current Formula: 71% wisdom resistance.
New Formula: 68% wisdom resistance

16 int vs 20 wis elf monk:
Current Formula: 80% wisdom resistance.
New Formula: 72.5% wisdom resistance

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23 int vs 16 wis dwarf bard
Current Formula: 42% wisdom resistance.
New Formula: 42% wisdom resistance

20 int vs 16 wis dwarf bard
Current Formula: 52% wisdom resistance.
New Formula: 46% wisdom resistance

16 int vs 16 wis dwarf bard
Current Formula: 63% wisdom resistance.
New Formula: 52% wisdom resistance



Obviously you still get lower int damage and all that too, but maybe shouldn't be so 'extreme' now per INT point. Won't effect much unless you are using lower int, which alot aren't, but should help out since overall everything was technically balanced on 22/23 int here. Originally.



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I might make a separate value for monsters too, as I think monster MR with 16 wis is generally high.. For example:

Current: level 21 character with 20 int fighting a level 23 monster with 16 wis: 37% MR.
New (2): same as above with new formula more reduction: 28.5% MR.


I'm not sure about the value of reduction for monsters... MOnsters with high wis:
Current: level 25 character fighting a level 25 monster with 23 wis.
New: same as above with new formula more reduction: 48% MR.



Remember this is NPCs only, similar to the agi increase when its a NPC. Feel free to disagree/agree. It's not in yet.

[Terron]

is that on mobs or pvp? or both?
i dont really have much input about mages in pvp, some people say they suck, others say they incinerated my goblin, so i dunno personally. i tend to go with what im seeing, which in the point of pvp 3-4 mages in an event arent scary because theres 15+ monks knights and barbs in the same event. im guessing most players would come to the same conclusion and play whatever has a best chance vs melee in that situation.

ive never been that drawn to pvp on most games like this, its mostly a>b>c>a type of environment event wise, and pking takes no skill. group up tap f5 until someone dies, i cant imagine its very hard when characters do 200 damage hits against 800-1300 hps. what draws me into pvp is a>b>c but a with these skills* > c, but less than d and b kinda thing. on here, i dont see it happening that deep, cuz like you said about gnome "theres plenty of races that have str and high agi and plenty of wis to get by". pking is a draw when its completed alone, but like i said looking someone over while autosneak or fade is on and owning a wounded person is no skill. although some might think wearing the paint off their pk macro f key is a triumph now if everyone was an assassin trying to murder each other it may be fun as hell im hoping that once more classes are trained its a much more well mixed environment for the events. as of right now ill just continue trying to farm items and stuff. cuz thats what i find the funnest part.

[Folder]

It's a simple game bro. Pretty sure you're the only to ever mention skill in this discussion, and I doubt anyone would argue this is a high skill cap game. There is charm in the simplicity. If you don't like that, shrug.

[Terron]

yes there is charm in simplicity.

but it should be simple enough that i couldn't name more worthless character builds as you name good ones, let alone 3x as many.
the reasoning is thus...(the stats are too powerful, not some of them, ALL of them. the level of your character should influence characters more than the stats. you are left with characters that need maximized stats. not a fully customized creation system. sooner or later it will be realized and countered, or it wont, not up to me and i don't care, its not like im getting paid to playtest this one.)

if it was so simple players wouldn't complain a 25 str character hits too hard...
nor would they complain a goblin got murdered by a master wizard..as ive offed millions of goblins with wizards in many a game.
we argue we make points we win we lose , its part of gaming, just accept it. we make points to try and balance the game NH sifts through the intel and does what he wants, some like some don't. i tend to keep everything separate from whether or not i like the game. i accept it for what it is after experiencing it myself, than after my experience i decide if i will stay or leave.

now i will continue to kill monsters and gather items to sell incase there is ever a day gold has a use, for something other than mana and pots. because to me, that is the fun part.

[Terron]

(seems to me the stats have too much power individually, if a str adds 8-9 damage maybe it should be 4-5 instead and alter the formula of inherent level based damage to include the 48min-66max or so difference. could do it and keep the staple builds exactly the same damage while bringing the useless builds up to par, things like gnome fighter/saurian healer etc wouldn't be such a drastic damage difference. it would tighten the spread a bit, so classes like a half orc cleric / gnome knight can be used. it would be a drastic change for weak races but worth it overall, but then again its not my game do whatever)

[Styx]

Seeing as pally shall not wield 2 handed , how about they get shield bash since all pally equip shield and armored just like a knight

[NiteHawk]

That is PVP formulas. PVE will have lower unaffects by a little now, similar to AGI with PVE and PVP which should help PVE combat since I can understand it is a little high against monsters.

Unfortunately I don't see eye to eye with some things though either. I think it would make too many changes as a staff won't have the same effect as a sword, nor will a lower class that has a lower modifier that isn't a knight or barbarian. I don't really feel like 4 points of damage per STR justs justice anyways and will simply ruin half orcs and make agi base classes far more powerful.

I mean if you use a HO cleric with 24 str now you'll get 123-164 damage on physical. It's not terrible, though your heals will probably be rather low, probably 180-200 if that with aid. But I just think for the sake of a couple classes that won't be as powerful using certain races in any case you kind of ruin the game in terms of balance by doing it this way.

I know if a gnome knight with it's powerful resistance was used, I'd skip 16 damage (20 str middle man classes) or even 22 str classes (28 damage?) cause you would be insanely powerful.

In the end the better option would be to raise stats and adjust stats instead when it comes to certain things like STR. 16 to 24 is a bigger variance than most, but I'm not going to do that yet.

[Terron]

your variance should be tested through the entire range 10 to 25 since that's what is included in your game. however it is unusable, it will remain unusable. im not saying 10 STR warriors should be running around, but a gnome or anything else doing up to 72min and 90 max less damage per hit is insanity, that's why they aren't used at all. same can be said about most races as casters. it is sad to see so much content being wasted and not utilized.