Monks
Re: Monks
I would really like to see this in action but when asking people i either get a no or no response at all.
So lets theorize for a bit
Using 33 percent hit chance rather then 38 percent easier for me to calculate but still puts forward what i'm trying to say.
If each of the three chances is completely independent of the others, then you just multiply all the odds together.
1/3 x 1/3 × 1/3 = 1/27 = 3.7%
First hit Second Hit Roundhouse
Damage absorption or reflection doesn't play a role here as they count as a successful attack
So my chances of getting a successful roundhouse off and have the first two hits hit
round 1
1 33% independent
2 33% independent
3 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
4 33% independent
5 33% independent
round 2
1 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
2 33% independent
3 33% independent
4 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
5 33% independent
round 3
1 33% independent
2 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
3 33% independent
4 33% independent
5 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
round 4 is same as round 1
So using 3.7% = the same as 37 hits out of 1000 that seems really low chance of getting a roundhouse off
If a monk's damage is based off hitting not so hard but hitting consistently to get roundhouse off(which is the source of damage for them and the reason why you would make a monk) then you can see why it feels like making a monk is sorta not preferable unless they are different from other class's to allow for the big damage source (roundhouse) to land more often, taking away their inbuilt hit rate makes them way less preferable then other melee damage class's.
Now i know people will say well Barbs need three hits in a row also but you could make a Goblin Zerker with 19 str and 23 agi which would have the same chances as a monk to get their flurry off, I would need the Math's on STR to compare damage output but from fights with HomeGrown I am pretty positive he hits harder with his regular attacks plus the flurry damage. But again will need maths on Str to say for sure. ( I say this because a decked shadow sword has 26 AD and a decked void staff has 22 AD but depending on Str 4 AD may even out with less Str i would like to see the numbers)
Was just thinking could even make a Saurian Zerker with 22str and 23 agi and therefore definitly getting more damage out with a two hand or dual wielding and would still have the same hit chance as a monk
So lets theorize for a bit
Using 33 percent hit chance rather then 38 percent easier for me to calculate but still puts forward what i'm trying to say.
If each of the three chances is completely independent of the others, then you just multiply all the odds together.
1/3 x 1/3 × 1/3 = 1/27 = 3.7%
First hit Second Hit Roundhouse
Damage absorption or reflection doesn't play a role here as they count as a successful attack
So my chances of getting a successful roundhouse off and have the first two hits hit
round 1
1 33% independent
2 33% independent
3 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
4 33% independent
5 33% independent
round 2
1 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
2 33% independent
3 33% independent
4 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
5 33% independent
round 3
1 33% independent
2 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
3 33% independent
4 33% independent
5 roundhouse rely's off first two hits plus its own independent hit = 3.7%
round 4 is same as round 1
So using 3.7% = the same as 37 hits out of 1000 that seems really low chance of getting a roundhouse off
If a monk's damage is based off hitting not so hard but hitting consistently to get roundhouse off(which is the source of damage for them and the reason why you would make a monk) then you can see why it feels like making a monk is sorta not preferable unless they are different from other class's to allow for the big damage source (roundhouse) to land more often, taking away their inbuilt hit rate makes them way less preferable then other melee damage class's.
Now i know people will say well Barbs need three hits in a row also but you could make a Goblin Zerker with 19 str and 23 agi which would have the same chances as a monk to get their flurry off, I would need the Math's on STR to compare damage output but from fights with HomeGrown I am pretty positive he hits harder with his regular attacks plus the flurry damage. But again will need maths on Str to say for sure. ( I say this because a decked shadow sword has 26 AD and a decked void staff has 22 AD but depending on Str 4 AD may even out with less Str i would like to see the numbers)
Was just thinking could even make a Saurian Zerker with 22str and 23 agi and therefore definitly getting more damage out with a two hand or dual wielding and would still have the same hit chance as a monk
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Mujahideen
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:53 pm
Re: Monks
It's simple math.
.38 X .38 X .38 = .054872. Or in other words a 5.4872% chance at landing ANY 3 in a row.
Unless my logic is off, a ninja with +1 agi over his opponent should roundhouse once every 3.664 rounds.
Seems about right.
100 divided by 5.4872 = 18.224. So once every 18.224 attacks should be a roundhouse. Ninjas have 5 attacks per round right?
18.224 divided by 5 = 3.664 rounds.
.38 X .38 X .38 = .054872. Or in other words a 5.4872% chance at landing ANY 3 in a row.
Unless my logic is off, a ninja with +1 agi over his opponent should roundhouse once every 3.664 rounds.
Seems about right.
100 divided by 5.4872 = 18.224. So once every 18.224 attacks should be a roundhouse. Ninjas have 5 attacks per round right?
18.224 divided by 5 = 3.664 rounds.
Troll. I am here to create the issues that plague the game, I will push your buttons and like the outcome.
Re: Monks
Anecdotally monks don't feel like they are in a bad place. I do well in duels and pvp on mine, a goblin. NH has the data you guys are looking for, there's no need to run tests or whatever. There's a spreadsheet with dodge/hit rates, it's not a mystery that needs solving 
.
The real question is when do monks get to use fist weapons?!
edit: I do think div in pvp possibly plays too big of a role. But that's a different topic...
.The real question is when do monks get to use fist weapons?!
edit: I do think div in pvp possibly plays too big of a role. But that's a different topic...
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Re: Monks
I think it sounds worse on paper than it is in practice. Monks certainly hit for less per attack but they have that 5th attack to help and I think it balances out ok. They aren't huge burst damage but they are pretty consistent in my experience.
I do understand that lower damage numbers feels worse sometimes. Not sure what to do about that though because they need to hit for less per attack because of 5 actions.
About the only thing I could think of is giving RH attacks a + to hit, if we feel they just aren't really happening much.
I do understand that lower damage numbers feels worse sometimes. Not sure what to do about that though because they need to hit for less per attack because of 5 actions.
About the only thing I could think of is giving RH attacks a + to hit, if we feel they just aren't really happening much.
<Silhouette>
Re: Monks
Div and damage does, but not dodge rate or hit rate. As per data, paper stats are OK but when it gets to stuff bigger then 1vs1 it's nice to have proper data. But yeah, when it comes to 1vs1 that's the case.
And yeah, when you are fighting someone of similar AGI or higher, it's going to be harder to land roundhouses. Seems valid to me.
taking the same value it would be 12.5% chance on high vs low AGI to RH. Which means 1.6 rounds to land a roundhouse each time. Seems legit? Two high AGI characters are going to struggle at roundhousing each other, though 3.6 rounds isn't terrible.
And yeah, when you are fighting someone of similar AGI or higher, it's going to be harder to land roundhouses. Seems valid to me.
taking the same value it would be 12.5% chance on high vs low AGI to RH. Which means 1.6 rounds to land a roundhouse each time. Seems legit? Two high AGI characters are going to struggle at roundhousing each other, though 3.6 rounds isn't terrible.
Re: Monks
Ill add one more thing that i am struggling to understand
From the math you are correct every 3.6 rounds in theory should be a roundhouse, but every hit is independent of eachother and there is no magical after 3.6 rounds guarantee roundhouse
It is always going to be 5.4% EVERY round
After this post i see no reason to make a Ninja unless you are very lucky, ( say a Barbarian who hits harder but has the same chance to hit makes way more sense to make over a monk)
From the math you are correct every 3.6 rounds in theory should be a roundhouse, but every hit is independent of eachother and there is no magical after 3.6 rounds guarantee roundhouse
It is always going to be 5.4% EVERY round
After this post i see no reason to make a Ninja unless you are very lucky, ( say a Barbarian who hits harder but has the same chance to hit makes way more sense to make over a monk)
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