Ranger Pets

[NiteHawk]

Ranger pets are way to overpowered right now. They were never intending on getting that high of damage at all. It's a serious pain in the ass to adjust so I want to bring it up.

First off, a ranger does deal lower DPS. OAD bow and arrows is 155-194. To compare, a Knight does 167-224. However, that's 20 STR. Knights will probably have more than that too, while rangers often don't pick the higher STR ones, or at least, should not. There is an issue right now I have to bring up on top of this involving that.


First, we have pets now that are damaging for 175 max with gear. Way to high.
Second, regardless of amount of attacks, they deal the same damage. Typically pets with more attacks should damage a little less to even it out.
Third, pets with more attacks should have less taunt, aka, not good in PVE.
Fourth, Charisma has no play in this. This means someone could make a taming ranger, then give it to a saurian ranger, and suddenly they have heavy DPS and a super pet. This is a bit OP.
Fifth, gear has not been changed and was a after sight. I totally forgot about this, but the iron gear boosts damage by 30 points.

All of the above plays a role in derpage. It's a heavy system I worked on, but it's also now a system that's hard to balance. The biggest issue is that the pet values are hard coded, So I'd need to edit all rangers manually. This is a straight up pain in the ass and all pets might need to be wiped for this (though I'll try to credit something back like a one time 100% capture shard).

I want to get this fixed before doing this though. Right now, it just takes the stats of the pet you killed and adds it to a shard when captured. Pets can have higher AGI/etc which makes uniqueness.


The two ideas I had is>

A. Simply lower the STR a good deal, and then add a player charisma bonus to all the stats. For example if skeletal beast does 80 damage after the STR dip from capturing, then add +2 damage per additional charisma point making 120 damage.
B. Charisma plays a huge part in it. And then the pet you captured gives it a SMALL bonus instead. I.E. 20 charisma at level 25 might give 80 damage (so 4 points of damage per charisma), and then the pet captured is an additional 20 damage. All the stats would be based on something like this, but this would make pets less unique but easier to balance. So kind of opposite way of A.

We also need to include the attacks and lower the damage maybe by 15-20% if the npc has 2 vs 3 attacks lets say.


However, what would people think is a good way of handling this? A. B. Something else? What do people think is a good 'damage' for these guys. Remember, they FOCUS on whatever your attacking currently. They are SMART.

[NiteHawk]

Actually this might be a better idea.

You base the stats off charisma. Let us take a Dreadbeast. It has 120 damage, 22 agi, 20 dodge, etc.


So lets say its stats are effected by charisma. You get a percentage of the monster.
23 charisma: 85%
22 charisma: 83%
21 charisma: 81%
20 charisma: 79%
19 charisma: 77%
...
16 charisma: 71%
12 charisma: 63%


So based off this chart 23 charisma is 85% of the stats. so 102 damage, 19 agi, 18 agi.
Someone with 12 charisma would only have 63%, so 75 damage, 14 agi, 13 agi.


I think it would be something like this, though I don't think I will hit agi THAT hard as the example, but you get the idea. This would make charisma pretty useful for pets too.

[Honzo]

Just got home to read this. I think that making Charisma affect the pet, but pets having normalized stats is the way to go. That way it lets one of their main stats be useful(Only bards get usefulness out of Charisma). Pets when tamed should have the same stats so that way you don't have to tame a thousand pets to get a decent one. Thats why you have the buffs you can buy in the ranger hideout anyways right? So if they all have the same stats, you can adjust them using the ranger hideout items to make them a tanker/dps type. I don't know if this is possible but it seems like if you just make "Whenever you tame a mob, its stats become a base amount based on your level" THEN charisma adjusts the dmg accordingly. This solves the trading of pets and making them a tank or dps! All pets are the same, just an aesthetic but YOU the player get to choose the type it will be. A tanking turtle or a dps turtle. It still gives them an edge because the opponent won't know what type of pet until after you attack.


So lets say you tame a bear at lvl 15, and its stats are all 20/20/20/20/20/20. You could instead tame a level 15 eagle, its stats would also be 20/20/20/20/20/20. Modify them with the boosts from the ranger hideout either giving them an attack and making them a pvp pet, or making them the pve pet and giving them more armor/hp/whatever and less attacks...right? Would that solve you from having to go back and recode every rangers pet? The downside I can see to this is...will there be OAD pets? Are unique's capturable?

[Folder]

Oh boy this sounds like a mess now lol.

I'm not really a huge fan of no variety in pets other than name. Seems kinda meh if they are all the same. It would certainly make balancing easier though.

I do like charisma affecting them though, that seems pretty solid. I have no experience yet with their damage output so can't really comment.

[NiteHawk]

Oh boy this sounds like a mess now lol.

I'm not really a huge fan of no variety in pets other than name. Seems kinda meh if they are all the same. It would certainly make balancing easier though.

I do like charisma affecting them though, that seems pretty solid. I have no experience yet with their damage output so can't really comment.

I agree, I think pets need some variance. Thats why I think the second post I made here would probably work the best, we just need an idea on what damage output should be. I'm honestly thinking around 120 for 22 charisma/high level monster though.

[Honzo]

Actually this might be a better idea.

You base the stats off charisma. Let us take a Dreadbeast. It has 120 damage, 22 agi, 20 dodge, etc.


So lets say its stats are effected by charisma. You get a percentage of the monster.
23 charisma: 85%
22 charisma: 83%
21 charisma: 81%
20 charisma: 79%
19 charisma: 77%
...
16 charisma: 71%
12 charisma: 63%


So based off this chart 23 charisma is 85% of the stats. so 102 damage, 19 agi, 18 agi.
Someone with 12 charisma would only have 63%, so 75 damage, 14 agi, 13 agi.


I think it would be something like this, though I don't think I will hit agi THAT hard as the example, but you get the idea. This would make charisma pretty useful for pets too.

So this way you have the stats adjusted on use, not on capture correct? So that if someone with a 23 Charisma trades off a pet to someone with 20 Charisma, the person using the pet would only get 79% of the dmg effectiveness instead of 85%?

[daedroth]

Definetly need it on use. CHR should only affect the pet your using: as in the same pet being used by someone with less CHR would be slightly weaker.
I was going to post on this when I made a ranger but got sidetracked because I never got round to levelling him. Basically having the ability to trade crystals meant you could make CHR 10 ranger and just buy a crystal from somone... but yeh like I said, I thought about then forgot because I haven't bothered levelling one.
Pet variance is good... but I kinda like Honzo's static idea for stats. I am the type who will go off on a crusade to get a pet with better stats potentially wasting hours... days... weeks... mon.. ok you get the point. So static or varied stats im happy with.
I will say it again though, having CHR act like a buff for the pet that is being used is the way to go.

[NiteHawk]

So this way you have the stats adjusted on use, not on capture correct? So that if someone with a 23 Charisma trades off a pet to someone with 20 Charisma, the person using the pet would only get 79% of the dmg effectiveness instead of 85%?

Well yeah, NPCs would still be different, but charisma would have an effective rate. We could say 23 char would be able to utilize the pet '100%' and 20 int would be '94%' To make it easier.

Pet variance is good... but I kinda like Honzo's static idea for stats. I am the type who will go off on a crusade to get a pet with better stats potentially wasting hours... days... weeks... mon.. ok you get the point. So static or varied stats im happy with.

I feel that pets should be something saught out, and not just static. I think static is boring. Makes it ever fun when you want a new pet, it's part of the stuggles of a ranger.

The actual DAMAGE formula per pet does need adjusting though. Not even taking into account charisma. What would be 100% utilization of damage? I don't think we can base this off the king scorp as I already know it is overpowered. But lets say a NPC has around 150 damage (before capture) with three attacks.. If left as it is, a pet could have 180 damage with gear, WITH three attacks, THIS ADJUSTED damage is what will be displayed in the crystal (right now its a flat 15% reduction but that's not enough.)

There needs to be a damage reduction right from the get go, something like this: Power*(1-((attacks * 0.175)). Take some examples:

130-150 damage, 3 attacks
MIN
130*(1-((3 * 0.175)) = 62 damage

MAX
150*(1-((3 * 0.175)) = 71 damage.

With gear = 82 to 91 damage per attack, three attacks.


Same thing, but two attack mob.
MIN
130*(1-((2 * 0.175)) = 84 damage

MAX
150*(1-((2 * 0.175)) = 98 damage.

With gear = 104 to 118 damage per attack, two attacks.


Obviously we still give the x3 hitter the advantage in damage cause he will have more chances to miss.


Okay so, this is maxium, I.E. 23 charisma, let's start decreasing our charisma. 20 charisma. Let's only use the x2 attack mob.

MIN
(130*(1-((2 * 0.175)))*0.94=79 damage
MAX
(150*(1-((2 * 0.175)))*0.94=91 damage

With gear = 99 damage to 111 damage. Still a decent pet.


Now let's take the bum with 12 charisma. 63% eff.

MIN
(130*(1-((2 * 0.175)))*0.63=53 damage
MAX
(150*(1-((2 * 0.175)))*0.63=61 damage

With gear = 73 damage to 81damage. Tis lower. Unsure if this is low enough, maybe has to be a little more. But you get the idea


On a final note, I get that 30 damage is the current bonus on pet items, but I am going to lower it to 20 damage.

[Honzo]

What is the average damage for Rangers with highest OAD atm and model strength(20 or whatever). That's probably a good first step in knowing how much they need the dmg nerfed XD. And who is supposed to be the highest? Sorc? Where are they supposed to be in terms of dps again? #2/3? Could you do something that made pets with 2 attacks only do 75%/60% of the dmg that pets with 3 attacks get? From my understanding that's the big difference in pets right? 2 attacks = pve 3 = pvp?

[NiteHawk]

What is the average damage for Rangers with highest OAD atm and model strength(20 or whatever). That's probably a good first step in knowing how much they need the dmg nerfed XD. And who is supposed to be the highest? Sorc? Where are they supposed to be in terms of dps again? #2/3? Could you do something that made pets with 2 attacks only do 75%/60% of the dmg that pets with 3 attacks get? From my understanding that's the big difference in pets right? 2 attacks = pve 3 = pvp?

With an OAD bow and arrows it's 155-194. So under a pally in terms of max dps, but higher min.

Cav: 167-224
Pally: 150-201
Bard: 147-197

They aren't terrible but it's not like they are 'seriously' lacking.