Class Stat Restrictions

[daedroth]

Well I found out horc rangers have a terrible time trying to tame, whodda thunk it.

[NiteHawk]

Elf master race reporting in.

Cat form - 40 25 18 16 22 10. 75ac, 900hp.
Bear form - 34 23 22 16 26 10. 95ac, 1200hp.

Yeah this here is what I'm generally afriad of.

I'm wondering what can be done about it. I don't think the damage is a problem, but the AGI bonus might be. Maybe it should be a set amount rather then based on the wisdom for the AGI bonus. Let's say 1 or 2 agi.

I'd LOVE to keep this as it is without restrictions, but we need to balance this out too so it's fair, or lock it again but maybe with different stats.

The need for INT is what kept druids in balance a bit. I'm open for suggestions on this for bear and cat form.

[NiteHawk]

Well I found out horc rangers have a terrible time trying to tame, whodda thunk it.

Taming would be one of the stats I'd have to adjust since I think it's based off 16 charisma, so it'll be far low with 10 charisma, maybe impossible.

if 16 charisma was 5% tame, and 23 charisma was 10% tame, then 10 charisma is probably going to be 2% ish. Then again, that might be fine, you nerfed a important stat so it's generally your fault as per say

I just need to make sure the values for taming aren't under 0% though.

[Bron]

Just curious, but wouldn't this. No matter if you gain it through using points to increase your base AGI or gain AGI when shifted through bonus WIS. Wouldn't it only get one more point of AGI? Does that one point really make that huge of a difference? Hard to tell without logs.

[NiteHawk]

Just curious, but wouldn't this. No matter if you gain it through using points to increase your base AGI or gain AGI when shifted through bonus WIS. Wouldn't it only get one more point of AGI? Does that one point really make that huge of a difference? Hard to tell without logs.

He's getting three. Three would make a decent difference yeah. This ain't ROK so AGI does matter Because they have a nerf to AGI I intended on having a maximum of 2 agi for cats, and 1 for bears, typically.

Thing is with the change too, again tis all based on 16 wisdom. If we allow 10 wisdom, even if its not a good idea, it needs to probably effect somehow.


The problem lies with the amount you gain per wisdom point though. I'm sure I can figure out a better formula. Before though the need for chr/int made it harder to get perfect 'needed' characters but it's a bit problematic with druids.

[Bron]

I know he is getting three. But I was referring doesn't lifting the restrictions only allow druids to get 1 more AGI? Either from bumping off the AGI over max, or bumping up their WIS over max? Does that 1 point really break the class, was my question.

If you kept the restrictions removed, I am just leveling my first few druids so don't have all the numbers for what each wisdom does. But, if want to keep Wisdom has the deciding factor for druids.

For Agility Bonuses
Wis 10 - 15: 1 Cat
Wis 16 - 19: 1 Cat / 1 Bear
Wis 20: 2 Cat / 1 Bear
Wis 21: 2 Cat / 2 Bear
Wis 22: 3 Cat / 2 Bear
Wis 23: 4 Cat / 2 Bear

This would put most of the druidic races kind of even in the end. Elf, Halfling, Dark Elf, Gnome. As having similiar Agilities at 25. If you end up making it a blanket effect, than that is one less difference between having a low, avg or high Wisdom scores.

[NiteHawk]

I know he is getting three. But I was referring doesn't lifting the restrictions only allow druids to get 1 more AGI? Either from bumping off the AGI over max, or bumping up their WIS over max? Does that 1 point really break the class, was my question.

If you kept the restrictions removed, I am just leveling my first few druids so don't have all the numbers for what each wisdom does. But, if want to keep Wisdom has the deciding factor for druids.

For Agility Bonuses
Wis 10 - 15: 1 Cat
Wis 16 - 19: 1 Cat / 1 Bear
Wis 20: 2 Cat / 1 Bear
Wis 21: 2 Cat / 2 Bear
Wis 22: 3 Cat / 2 Bear
Wis 23: 4 Cat / 2 Bear

This would put most of the druidic races kind of even in the end. Elf, Halfling, Dark Elf, Gnome. As having similiar Agilities at 25. If you end up making it a blanket effect, than that is one less difference between having a low, avg or high Wisdom scores.

Every little bit helps. The thing is that when you have a race that can get maximum everything, it makes other races useless. You can say they are all similar but if Elves get the best AGI and STR, then whats the point of using any other race.

To me, it does matter.

[Bron]

I am aware every little bit does help, just that does the +1 break the class? As far as elves being the "best" at all stats when morphed. I don't know all the numbers for strength. so just used an example and made my own (which actually made some stats a little higher, but that could be tweaked easily). I don't think elves are the end all druid race. There are so many factors in Druid. Str/Agi/End/Wis, HP, MP, Armor, Magic Reduction. So many races have different points of strength, that even if one race did have the top STR/AGI there is no way they could also have the top in every other category. So different races would be valuable based on the situation, the group, the enemy, etc.
---
If using my AGI suggestion:

Druid Agility Simulation for Maximum Agility as Cat (this is putting either the +1 in Agility
or Wisdom, whichever gives the higher stat)

Dark Elf: 24
Drakeblood: 24
Dwarf: 21
Elf: 25
Gnome: 25
Goblin: 24
Half Elf: 24
Halfling: 26
Half Orc: 21
Human: 23
Saurian: 24

So it would go Halfling, -> Elf/Gnome -> Dark Elf/Drake/Goblin/Half Elf/Saurian -> Rest.]

So then if we did Strength in the same manner as I did Agility. (Mind you, for some races this means putting their bonus point in Str, while others put it in WIS, this is also not compatible with the above list, because some put it in AGI and some put it in WIS above as well.)

Strength Bonus:
Wis 10 - 15: 14 Cat / 10 Bear
Wis 16 - 19: 16 Cat / 12 Bear
Wis 20: 20 Cat / 15 Bear
Wis 21: 21 Cat / 16 Bear
Wis 22: 23 Cat / 18 Bear
Wis 23: 25 Cat / 20 Bear

Dark Elf: 41/36
Drakeblood: 36/32
Dwarf: 41/36
Elf: 41/36
Gnome: 41/36
Goblin: 36/32
Half-Elf: 40/35
Halfling: 39/34
Half-Orc: 38/34
Human: 41/36
Saurian: 37/33

So for cat: Dark Elf/Dwarf/Elf/Gnome/Human -> Half-Elf -> Halfling -> Rest.
For Bear: Dark Elf/Dwarf/Elf/Gnome/Human -> Half-Elf -> Halfling/HalfOrc -> Rest.

PS: If I am bugging you, please let me know. I just finished helping an mIRC game balance their new system last year. Which is the first playtesting/proofing work I have done professionally in like a decade.

[Bron]

Elf master race reporting in.

Cat form - 40 25 18 16 22 10. 75ac, 900hp.
Bear form - 34 23 22 16 26 10. 95ac, 1200hp.

Gnome Elder: 16 21 17 10 23 20. 40ac, 917hp, 637mp (could have gone higher INT, or averaged INT/CHR, just wanted to see the HP turnout)
Cat Form: 39 24 17 10 23 20. 76ac
Bear Form: 33 23 22 10 27 20. 96ac. 1292hp, 737mp

[NiteHawk]

I am aware every little bit does help, just that does the +1 break the class? As far as elves being the "best" at all stats when morphed. I don't know all the numbers for strength. so just used an example and made my own (which actually made some stats a little higher, but that could be tweaked easily). I don't think elves are the end all druid race. There are so many factors in Druid. Str/Agi/End/Wis, HP, MP, Armor, Magic Reduction. So many races have different points of strength, that even if one race did have the top STR/AGI there is no way they could also have the top in every other category. So different races would be valuable based on the situation, the group, the enemy, etc.
---
If using my AGI suggestion:

Druid Agility Simulation for Maximum Agility as Cat (this is putting either the +1 in Agility
or Wisdom, whichever gives the higher stat)

Dark Elf: 24
Drakeblood: 24
Dwarf: 21
Elf: 25
Gnome: 25
Goblin: 24
Half Elf: 24
Halfling: 26
Half Orc: 21
Human: 23
Saurian: 24

So it would go Halfling, -> Elf/Gnome -> Dark Elf/Drake/Goblin/Half Elf/Saurian -> Rest.]

So then if we did Strength in the same manner as I did Agility. (Mind you, for some races this means putting their bonus point in Str, while others put it in WIS, this is also not compatible with the above list, because some put it in AGI and some put it in WIS above as well.)

Strength Bonus:
Wis 10 - 15: 14 Cat / 10 Bear
Wis 16 - 19: 16 Cat / 12 Bear
Wis 20: 20 Cat / 15 Bear
Wis 21: 21 Cat / 16 Bear
Wis 22: 23 Cat / 18 Bear
Wis 23: 25 Cat / 20 Bear

Dark Elf: 41/36
Drakeblood: 36/32
Dwarf: 41/36
Elf: 41/36
Gnome: 41/36
Goblin: 36/32
Half-Elf: 40/35
Halfling: 39/34
Half-Orc: 38/34
Human: 41/36
Saurian: 37/33

So for cat: Dark Elf/Dwarf/Elf/Gnome/Human -> Half-Elf -> Halfling -> Rest.
For Bear: Dark Elf/Dwarf/Elf/Gnome/Human -> Half-Elf -> Halfling/HalfOrc -> Rest.

PS: If I am bugging you, please let me know. I just finished helping an mIRC game balance their new system last year. Which is the first playtesting/proofing work I have done professionally in like a decade.

Yeah I am going to take a look at it. I prefer it to be a formula though rather then set amounts. I can come up with something I'm sure. I might have a better idea for the strength though, we'll see shortly.