Dodge

[NiteHawk]

The simple fact here is that if you have the same AGI and LVL (sometimes class, if you are barbarian/ninja) then you have 50% dodge.

You can see this in action here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing ...Feel free to modify the values for testing. Monks have about +2 agi extra, and barbarians have -2 agi extra.

I would say the average per point is between 3%-3.5% more dodge from the base value of 50%. AKA if you have 2 more AGI points your dodge rate is around 56%-57% total. However, I'm starting to think that a base of 50% is too high. It means that you'll almost always take at least half damage of what that said player can do. In ROK your armor really effected your dodge rate, which is bad alone, but that's what it was. This game needs to keep both armor and agi separate for balance reasons.

This means that someone with 18 agi vs 23 agi, the dodge rate is going to be around 16% more on average, for a total of about 66%. Being a ninja will put it around 70% dodge rate.


I think the base needs to start lower, and then scale to that. I am not sure how the formula should be for this yet, and how much it should actually be. If two people with the same AGI/Class/Race clash, then what should the starter value be? What should the per point higher then their AGI give you?


To start it rolling, I'm going to say the starting AGI could be around 35%, with 2.5% increments. So:

18 agi vs 18 agi = 35% dodge rate.
18 agi vs 23 agi = 47.5% dodge rate.
18 agi vs ninja 23 agi = 52.5% dodge rate.


I don't really know if this works or not, and how it should be. I think alot of people complain that they don't feel like they are dodging, but it's probably becuase in ROK days, if you had like 105 AC, you generally dodged 80-85% of the time... Talking about precrash. Postcrash agi was worthless.

If we change this, we do need to lower AGI on monsters too so monsters dodge around the same. I think attack AGI can stay the same though, they'll hit a bit less but I think overall that would be okay too.

[Istria]

My dwarves are useless now!

[Folder]

Using your proposed 35% starting dodge what's the dodge rate in the opposite direction, as in 23 agi attacking 18 agi? 18 agi dodge rate = 22.5%?

[NiteHawk]

Came up with this so far.

18 agi vs 18 agi = 35% hit rate.
18 agi vs 24 agi = 23.5% hit rate.
24 agi vs 18 agi = 50% hit rate.
18 agi vs 24 agi monk = 20% hit rate.

Overall it's about 2-2.5% per AGI point higher or lower. This means that fighting someone of the same AGI/Race you'll hit around 1/3 of the time, fighting someone with higher agi, 18 to 24 AGI will be about 1/4th. Then monks would be 1/5th with maximum value difference. Right now its about 3-3.5% per point which is a bit high, specially when it starts at 50%.

So each per point is a little bit nerfed, and the starting hit rate is reduced by about 15%. I think this might be in line more with how old ROK was though, or similar. I remember in events with my druid hitting 1-2 per round on average.

I'm wondering though if we should give 18 agi races +1 point though. It would mean 24 vs 19 agi which is about 47%.

Edit: ABOVE google sheet is edited with these values for testing purposes.

[Folder]

Ok so how do all the rolls work?

Is it:

>dodge roll
>absorb roll
>deflect roll

and you must pass all 3 to hit? And for the absorb roll is there then a 2nd roll (1/4 chance?) to determine if it is either some, half, most, or all? And sorry I forget, is it all or nothing for the deflect roll?

We could be approaching making paladins/priests very hard to hit.

Don't give a character with 18 agi +1 agi for free, else every 19 agi character will just roll themselves with 18 agi and put that point elsewhere. If you roll a toon with 18 agi expect it to be a brick.

[NiteHawk]

Ok so how do all the rolls work?

Is it:

>dodge roll
>absorb roll
>deflect roll

and you must pass all 3 to hit? And for the absorb roll is there then a 2nd roll (1/4 chance?) to determine if it is either some, half, most, or all? And sorry I forget, is it all or nothing for the deflect roll?

We could be approaching making paladins/priests very hard to hit.

Don't give a character with 18 agi +1 agi for free, else every 19 agi character will just roll themselves with 18 agi and put that point elsewhere. If you roll a toon with 18 agi expect it to be a brick.

Absorb and deflect don't do 100% automatically if they pass the roll. If its successful its a 25/50/75/100% damage reduction chance if its successful. It picks a random one of the bunch. I'd say more times you'll have a reduction rather then a full 100% removal of damage with absorb or deflect. Deflect works the same as absorb. Technically you can see it as one roll if you add both the percentage checks together, but I kept them separate for a visible effect that shields are doing what they do.

True that, I'll leave it as it is then for AGI anyways. It's not so much what you said there but it might unbalance races that have 19 agi as a default. Cause I'd just think people would still put the +1 into agi regardless on those low agi chars anyways in that scenario.

[Folder]

Ok great, got it. Def gonna need to keep an eye on pallies and priests. Priests are already looking at needing ~2-3 toons to kill them, but that may be ok since they have shit offense.

[Reckqq]

Interesting proposals. Will need to test things to really know how it plays out. Seems like this makes agi slightly weaker per point? Which i suppose is not a bad thing as +1 agi gobbys/saury/drakebloods etc seem to be the way to go for physical vs physical. This could make other stats a bit more desired.

It's definitely more closer to RoK. Let's see if thats a good thing.

[Kruell]

I think the starting point we should have isn't what should be the base hit rate but what should be the minimum and maximum hit rate assuming a maximum 5 agi spread. Should 24 agi boosted Ling hit 19 agi Horc 50% of the time or more? Reverse it and how often should the Horc hit the Ling? Once you get the outliers, the formula should be easy.

[NiteHawk]

I scrapped the whole dodge system and created a new one. The old one benifited AGI extremely, because you'd gain more AGI if you had more AGI, and you'd lose more if you had less. It was kind of bad to balance.

New values can even be modified directly in game so should be easy to test and balance soon.

Right now the base is 35 dodge, and AGI modifies it by about 1.75% per point higher/lower. Level modifies it by 2.5% per point higher/lower.

Minimum/Max is 2%/98% no matter what. Though this is more for mobs and if you are extremely low level fighting something super high. Not sure if I'll keep this but I think it's OK.

Obviously if your a monk or ninja it's modified. I'd say you get about 1.5-1.8 AGI gained or lost on top. Not sure if this is enough or too much yet but we'll test it. Same with AGI per point, but the variance is between 24.5% to 45.5%, and then a 24 agi monk brings it to 49%, and a barbarian with 18 agi would be about 22%. Same levels. I figured the variance of about 20% is enough. Before it was a variance of 50% which is kind of gross.

The PER LEVEL is about the same as it was originally, little bit less. But it still has a good enough impact.

It's all up in the air though, Monsters NEED to be evaluated now and adjusted, most likely lowered AGI wise. We'll test this too.


Again, we can adjust the dodge and per point depending on how people feel. You should be dodging alot more now in general, regardless of your agility, so it should make fights longer then a round or two. I understand people might feel like they aren't hitting anymore, but in general fights need to last alot longer. This is only a PVP adjustment right now, again PVE needs to be looked at but AFTER this.

Thanks.