Bows & Arrows

[Ivor]

Can you bring back dual weild as alternative option gear?

[Satsujin]

I'm playing with my ranger now. I'm not noticing much difference in damage between this and my barb's reg hits at this level, which is good, but since there are higher level swords in game, I can only imagine the DPS gap will increase by a lot if a similarly high level bow hasn't been introduced (ranger's only level 11 or I would check).

Damage without arrows is horrendous, which is good for a game mechanic, but horrible from a gameplay standard if you want rangers to keep being useful at 25. My proposed solution to this is a OAD item that gives you unlimited arrows, but they're worse than the best purchasable arrows. That way people still have motivation to purchase arrows instead of just relying on a pendant or whatever.

I hope their damage will balance out considerably with the addition of pets.

[NiteHawk]

I'm playing with my ranger now. I'm not noticing much difference in damage between this and my barb's reg hits at this level, which is good, but since there are higher level swords in game, I can only imagine the DPS gap will increase by a lot if a similarly high level bow hasn't been introduced (ranger's only level 11 or I would check).

Damage without arrows is horrendous, which is good for a game mechanic, but horrible from a gameplay standard if you want rangers to keep being useful at 25. My proposed solution to this is a OAD item that gives you unlimited arrows, but they're worse than the best purchasable arrows. That way people still have motivation to purchase arrows instead of just relying on a pendant or whatever.

I hope their damage will balance out considerably with the addition of pets.

Damage is horrendous without arrows? It should only be +1/+1 or +2/+2 with arrows. They aren't meant to have good damage, the pet they get will have bonuses and will scale with them. I'm thinking the damage is probably right without the arrows to be honest. They are no where near barbarian damage and comparing any damage to barbs doesn't work.

With 20 strength, Barbarians might need tweaking but they're damage was supposed to be like 330 with proper oad weapons. Maybe have to be lower or the agi needs adjusting.. But they are meant to miss more but hit hard. It's hard to test proper scaling without this.

20 strength rangers were aiming to be about 175-202 damage, then 188-216 damage with arrows. And then divinity arrows 201-233. There pet is going to have to be balanced but I'm assuming it's going to do more damage then I want it to start. Might even need to lower it more if their pet hits pretty much like they do to around 200 damage with div arrows. I recently changed it so you get EXP for pets hitting rather then just KS so it will help.

What the damage your getting with/without arrows. I'm wondering if I mucked something up. They should be no where near barbarian damage. Barbarians damage is outclassed by none. Arrows are meant to give a small bonus though, nothing special, just a little perk.

(Remember blades have a pretty large range. could be something like 50-70 for minimum less then max.)
Damage values with 20 str was something like
Barbs: 330-340 max hit
Knights: 300
Druids: 280 (lower min cause blunts)
Paladins: 270
Rangers: 188-216 w/ arrows, 233 with div arrows
Monk: 224 (but +1 attack which evens out the missing damage.)
Bard: 204 (no bonuses yet but will have a power bonus to probably bring them up 20-50 damage)
Assassin: 158 (BS 630 not DW, 710 with DW)
Thief: 118 (BS 414) (might adjust this a little higher so about 500-530)

Rest typically use spells.

[Satsujin]

Both my barbarian and my ranger are elves, so they are in fact doing similar damage if you remove the barbarian rage from the equation. Comparing them makes it easier for me. Also you really should know better than to trust my judgment on numbers by now.

Horrendous may have been a bad word choice on my part. I went and checked, and I'm using the +2 arrows, which explains the 20-30 points difference I was seeing in damage between with arrows and without. With the +1 arrows, the damage gap is much less noticeable.

I still like the idea of an ammy that gives infinite arrow bonuses though. Maybe as a quest thing instead of a OAD though.

[NiteHawk]

Both my barbarian and my ranger are elves, so they are in fact doing similar damage if you remove the barbarian rage from the equation. Comparing them makes it easier for me. Also you really should know better than to trust my judgment on numbers by now.

Horrendous may have been a bad word choice on my part. I went and checked, and I'm using the +2 arrows, which explains the 20-30 points difference I was seeing in damage between with arrows and without. With the +1 arrows, the damage gap is much less noticeable.

I still like the idea of an ammy that gives infinite arrow bonuses though. Maybe as a quest thing instead of a OAD though.

Nono but you said your barb does the same damage, I figured you are using same races

What level is your chars= whats the damage (actual damage) on barb vs ranger (with arrows/without if possible) or at least the chars i can test em too 8)

[daedroth]

Can you bring back dual weild as alternative option gear?

I second this. Think of all the poor Dro.. Dark Elf Drizzt wannabees! I am actually using sword n shield right now, cant be bothered with ammo buying (I am very lazy yes).

[NiteHawk]

Can you bring back dual weild as alternative option gear?

I second this. Think of all the poor Dro.. Dark Elf Drizzt wannabees! I am actually using sword n shield right now, cant be bothered with ammo buying (I am very lazy yes).

No, not bringing it back. It doesn't make sense that they can duel wield plus either using a sword and shield or a bow suffices. You don't need ammo to use a bow, the bow is actually better then a sword for rangers even without ammo. The only reason you'd not use it is because you want more armor, aka the shield, since a bow is two handed.

[Ivor]

If you think of it, with both assassin and ranger excluded from dual weild, we have no double sword class any more and thats a pity. Maybe not a pity, but for me always was a fascinating choice. Maybe bards can fight with a sword and dagger? Or a new class? Finess swordsman/gladiator/swashbuckler something..

[NiteHawk]

If you think of it, with both assassin and ranger excluded from dual weild, we have no double sword class any more and thats a pity. Maybe not a pity, but for me always was a fascinating choice. Maybe bards can fight with a sword and dagger? Or a new class? Finess swordsman/gladiator/swashbuckler something..

Probably a new class could do it 8) Assassins still DW they just get a different bonus from it.