pk ideas thread

[NiteHawk]

:lol: @ Losing a level for dying to a non-25er. That is just obscene.

I do like the wanted list/bounty board. The more a 25er a racks up kills in a day, the harsher the penalty for him and greater the reward for the person that finally takes them down.

Or even an active bounty board on 25ers only. So people who have been abused, the tender snowflakes that you are.. could place X amount of gold on Player A to get got.

It's easily abused though. I'd just kill myself with a mate once I have a high bounty. Bounty would have to be player based only, not auto rewarded by server. Specially cause they could generate gold this way and kill after etc. It would be hard to deal with .

I think alot of people run and its hard to kill unless you are lucky tbh Eld. I think alot more attempts are made, but thats ok IMO.

[anthriel]

I guess as a recent new player, my own experience/feeling was that there is literally NOTHING that someone can do to affect a 25er who is bullying them while they are leveling (hence probably why many cases result in damaging flame messages which further exacerbates more pking or counter productive bans happening) ...

Did you try talking to the pker?
Also I think you might be seeing being pkd as being bullied?
Or was the pker actually pk'ing you many times over a short period of time (as in breaking the ToS)?
Was the pker paging you with harrassment?
If you actually are being bullied, then report them.

I just wanted to clarify that i was not personally "harassed" by any PKers (as far as breaking ToS defines it). Hence i never bothered to talk to the pker.... my getting killed by a Pker so far does seem like a normal part of the game... But looking at past posts on this thread it does seem like there are some who do feel harassed by being followed from area to area and repeatedly targeted... and if their only recourse is to complain to staff - well isnt that the situation NH wants to avoid happening more?

What i was saying is that it is very easy for someone to FEEL harassed (apart from how ToS may define it) and stop playing the game we want them to be playing more of (either permanently if they have a bad experience when complaining to staff etc or temporarily while they wait until the PKers are no longer online) ---> because lets face it, most people are time-poor (have other uses of precious time) and most people dont really like leveling. I mean Adramelk and Jadefalcon's apparent dislike for having to potentially risk more leveling in order to engage in their favourite PKing past-time probably illustrates my case on this point. Most ppl play RPGs because they want a feeling of making progress, being social and because they want a character to be 'fulfilling' as to how they imagine it.... id hazard a guess that no new player imagines they want to play a character thats a total loser-gimp/bitch to someone else's 25er for the first 275-350m of grind.... even if they are to suck it up and accept being killed, they are going to want to have some reasonable/fair game mechanic that allows them the chance of striking back in some meaningful way. If you want a new player to say "GG, nice kill" to their Pker and somewhat-joyfully suck-it-up that they now have to spend more time leveling, then you really need to have given them some chance (even a small one) that the outcome could have gone the other way also.... otherwise even copping one PK can start feeling like some "immortal gods" are picking on mere mortals... and such a feeling is probably conducive to a new player wanting to play less rather than more (ie counterproductive to growth of the game)

I think as a community we are probably too blinded in perspective by our experience of ROK, that we've forgotten what a new player (who has never had the PK bastardisation initiation that Rok was) feels like. EO improves on ROK in one of its major flaws (i.e NH is far more active and open to suggestions than DM ever was) but it probably hasnt addressed the other major flaw (which is that the times have moved on, and hence why we cant even get back to ROK player numbers)... people today have far more alternative options for GMUD gaming... they are a far more instant-gratification culture... time is much more valuable as potential playerbase can be older with families/jobs/kids etc.... and therefore leaving a game mechanic the same as it was for ROK is nice for ex-ROK nostalgia players who are used to it, but is is at high risk of being out-of-touch with new players who have never played ROK. I'd be interested to see how many people who never played ROK or didnt have a friend dragging them through EO have actually stayed long enough to achieve having a 25er. My guess is quite few... and that might be saying something.

Basically EO right now can feel like a fish-farm with not enough fish. Existing/established players can assert their rights to fishing that farm as much as they enjoy but i doubt the new fish see it nearly as enjoyable (especially when there is no risk/penalty for the fisher). And un-like fish in the fish farm who have no choice but to be there, new players who realise that their only purpose in the game is to be someone else's victim can easily leave. At least if you introduce a mechanic where there is risk on both sides, the new player may feel its more like a boar hunt where they could potentially strike out with their tusks, rather than being a helpless fish at a fish farm.

Ultimately NH must make the game he sees fit. And both old and new players (consumers) must find the fulfillment they see fit (which may or may not be playing this one game). EO now is like an old nostalgia diner... it has a few regular patrons who make most of the suggestions and who's patronage keeps it going... and thats fine if thats what NH wants it to be. But if he actually wants it to grow into something of more scale like a global McDonalds business (which was my impression from threads about posting on Steam and advertising etc) then i think we existing patrons will need to expect that things cant just be ROK 2.0 but will need to change at some point for the betterment of the many potential new customers.

[Styx]

Personally I like the idea of a bounty Hunter system, this will increase pk which is supposed to be desired (unless it's me lol)

1. Bounty Hunter options, fee and bounty reward based the person making the bounty which can be added and increased in amount of people adding to total, would be if just killed recently within x min on server time.
2. Option 2, anyone can put up a bounty on a person to be killed, and total amount can accumulate to bounty total pk

I don't suggest bounty be server side cause it can bile easily abused, in ways I don't want to mention.

This can make the pkk aspect more involved and get a little reward on the side.

As well as the pk aspect of being the top number 1 on the most wanted list to be killed

DO YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO BE THE MOST WANTED CRIMINAL?

Most wanted to be decided by the most bounty placed on the pkers head. And yes there should be some sort of time limit on how long you are most wanted, after all people can forget how bad you were with time. So the most wanted is the one, running to make the kill.

Edit, pking up to what to tos allows without abuse

[anthriel]

Personally I like the idea of a bounty Hunter system, this will increase pk which is supposed to be desired (unless it's me lol)

1. Bounty Hunter options, fee and bounty reward based the person making the bounty which can be added and increased in amount of people adding to total, would be if just killed recently within x min on server time.
2. Option 2, anyone can put up a bounty on a person to be killed, and total amount can accumulate to bounty total pk

I don't suggest bounty be server side cause it can bile easily abused, in ways I don't want to mention.

This can make the pkk aspect more involved and get a little reward on the side.

As well as the pk aspect of being the top number 1 on the most wanted list to be killed

DO YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO BE THE MOST WANTED CRIMINAL?

Most wanted to be decided by the most bounty placed on the pkers head. And yes there should be some sort of time limit on how long you are most wanted, after all people can forget how bad you were with time. So the most wanted is the one, running to make the kill.

Edit, pking up to what to tos allows without abuse

I'm not quite understanding how this works. Can you please clarify what is the point in putting a bounty on someone if there's no consequence to a 25er dying? Say I spend 10k to post a bounty on Lvl 25 pker and someone kills him. Big deal... He loses nothing and is back to PKing in no time... I lose 10k gold.... Furthermore he probably has just had his friend kill him and split the gold.... It actually sounds like the pker ultimately gets more reward rather than actually having any risk/penalty imposed on them by the bounty being placed on them. The only way a bounty system or wanted list actually works is if there is some lasting consequence/drawback to the 25er I want killed... Otherwise it seems counterproductive to me as I may as well be donating the gold to them.

[daedroth]

Bounty system, as pointed out, will only be abused... UNLESS the money came from the pkers account - call it a fine. They were caught, charged and fined kinda thing.
How much they are fined for is based on how many people they initiated an attack on (and killed) in a set period of time (as in after X amount of time one kill dissapears, so if caught then they will be fined less). Repeat kills (on the same person) could optionally increase the fine a little more than a fresh kill.
Could be a % going to the pkd and a % just disapearing but most going to the killer.
Do not think a lot of people will like this idea.
Also what is done if the pker has no money? Clan fine? Then what if the pker is in no clan? Jail time for the alt pking or the player?
I wonder if people would then deliberatly set out to annoy someone... nah I am sure no one would ever do that

[NiteHawk]

The bounty system makes a lick of difference to deal with under level 25 pking. I know you might think 'OH BUT IF A LEVEL 25 HAS A HIGH BOUNTY ON THEM THEY WILL BE HUNTED THEMSELVES'. But he newbies aren't going to have tons of cash to bounty them. there is no way the system would give bounties based on kills, that would be insanely abused and it would only work using manual bounty adds by players.

In any case, it doesn't solve anything so it needs to be talked elsewhere.

[NiteHawk]

In terms of level 25'ers losing XP. I don't think it stops the harassment either because a level 25'er killing a newbie or new player in a group even has very little risk. If I were to even do that though, I'd allow EXP to climb up to a certain point. Being killed once and having to relevel even if it involves no gold to relevel is really rough and to me it would actually kill PKing completely. So you'd have to at least have a decent buffer of XP but I still feel like it just adds another layer that doesn't really solve it.


---


The whole damage reduction thing doesn't stop it either, but it at least prevents it after a certain period. But maybe simply the per death per hour needs to be adjusted too for example in the TOS. For example 3 kills per 2 hour per group, or 2 death per hour per group. It wouldn't stop the hunting though, and I do think its tough to nab someone unless you catch them with their pants down still.

The reason why I do like a damage reduction thing is that I think that it at least calms down players who been killed to many times. I think RUNNING and avoiding PKers is a part of the game, Losing XP is a part of the game. But imagine yourself in their shoes as a new player though, after a certain point it would get annoying. That way also it could be not moderated by staff anymore either.. Aka they die 3 times in an hour, they get immunity for a hour to at least feel safe and gain back the XP they lost and then some UNLESS they go hostile towards someone.

The three times a death thing is surely going to be exploited eventually anyways if its PER PLAYER that can do it. If we got 5 guys, separate clans, but hate one dude, each kills the dude 3 times, that would be rough on them. 15 deaths would be completely annoying. Surely a PKer' would be alright if a message came up saying that 'This person has been killed 3 times in an hour and has a immunity for the hour' or something like that. I think any decent person would say thats probably enough for them for now, yeah?

But again, the degree of how many kills and how long it would be is another. I honestly think 2 deaths per hour is actually enough, but that's just me.

--

Sides that, a level 25'er who dies to a newer player could get a heavier sickness that lasts longer too. Obviously the risk is if someone lower level gets a kill shot, but if thats the case I would assume that they were leveling and got jumped by said people, so fair game too. And I don't mean longer as in hours or anything, maybe a few minutes more per sickness level is all, or it starts at the second sickness level rather then the first level.

[daedroth]

The bounty system makes a lick of difference to deal with under level 25 pking. I know you might think 'OH BUT IF A LEVEL 25 HAS A HIGH BOUNTY ON THEM THEY WILL BE HUNTED THEMSELVES'. But he newbies aren't going to have tons of cash to bounty them. there is no way the system would give bounties based on kills, that would be insanely abused and it would only work using manual bounty adds by players.

In any case, it doesn't solve anything so it needs to be talked elsewhere.

Not if its a fee taken from the pkers account, as in my idea. You kill people the fine increases, time decreases the fine. If the pker is killed while there is a fine/bounty on their heads, then the pker pays that fine/bounty with his own money and if they have no money then they spend some time in jail; the length of time depending on the existing fine/bounty. All money goes to the pkk'er, some of the fine goes to the killer, some pays the administration fees of the law system.
The fine/bounty is only awarded if the person who does the killing also initiated the combat.
There could also be a criminal flag that can be seen when the person is looked over. This criminal flag could last longer than the fine, except there is no bounty, but they are free to be killed without recrimnation (this will allow pkk'ers to still attack pk'ers even when there is no fine/bounty). The criminal flag needs to be paid of by the pker on their own (but this can only be done after x amount of time)?

[NiteHawk]

The bounty system makes a lick of difference to deal with under level 25 pking. I know you might think 'OH BUT IF A LEVEL 25 HAS A HIGH BOUNTY ON THEM THEY WILL BE HUNTED THEMSELVES'. But he newbies aren't going to have tons of cash to bounty them. there is no way the system would give bounties based on kills, that would be insanely abused and it would only work using manual bounty adds by players.

In any case, it doesn't solve anything so it needs to be talked elsewhere.

Not if its a fee taken from the pkers account, as in my idea. You kill people the fine increases, time decreases the fine. If the pker is killed while there is a fine/bounty on their heads, then the pker pays that fine/bounty with his own money and if they have no money then they spend some time in jail; the length of time depending on the existing fine/bounty. All money goes to the pkk'er, some of the fine goes to the killer, some pays the administration fees of the law system.
The fine/bounty is only awarded if the person who does the killing also initiated the combat.
There could also be a criminal flag that can be seen when the person is looked over. This criminal flag could last longer than the fine, except there is no bounty, but they are free to be killed without recrimnation (this will allow pkk'ers to still attack pk'ers even when there is no fine/bounty). The criminal flag needs to be paid of by the pker on their own (but this can only be done after x amount of time)?

So then a PKer would store his gold on a separate account and buy stuff with said account. Jailing sounds abit silly as a punishment for literally pking, even worse then the XP thing

[daedroth]

The bounty system makes a lick of difference to deal with under level 25 pking. I know you might think 'OH BUT IF A LEVEL 25 HAS A HIGH BOUNTY ON THEM THEY WILL BE HUNTED THEMSELVES'. But he newbies aren't going to have tons of cash to bounty them. there is no way the system would give bounties based on kills, that would be insanely abused and it would only work using manual bounty adds by players.

In any case, it doesn't solve anything so it needs to be talked elsewhere.

Not if its a fee taken from the pkers account, as in my idea. You kill people the fine increases, time decreases the fine. If the pker is killed while there is a fine/bounty on their heads, then the pker pays that fine/bounty with his own money and if they have no money then they spend some time in jail; the length of time depending on the existing fine/bounty. All money goes to the pkk'er, some of the fine goes to the killer, some pays the administration fees of the law system.
The fine/bounty is only awarded if the person who does the killing also initiated the combat.
There could also be a criminal flag that can be seen when the person is looked over. This criminal flag could last longer than the fine, except there is no bounty, but they are free to be killed without recrimnation (this will allow pkk'ers to still attack pk'ers even when there is no fine/bounty). The criminal flag needs to be paid of by the pker on their own (but this can only be done after x amount of time)?

So then a PKer would store his gold on a separate account and buy stuff with said account. Jailing sounds abit silly as a punishment for literally pking, even worse then the XP thing

Then they spend time in jail
Also allow their account to go to a negative number, their charged anyway (to a max negative), then they cant buy anything. Also no character/item can be transfered while the account is at negative.
Off course that means it will need to be account wide.
So yeh they can still play on another account.