Dec 1st Balance Changes

[NiteHawk]

Most of the fights I have seen have an average of about 4 or 5 rounds. Though slayers can get lucky, cause they slayers.

Also killa is correct, though I reduced the passive effect, the active effect is higher and it still has a high chance to absorb or deflect. There is no more 10% absorbs or deflects, 20% is the minimum. The average damage you absorb is the same overall.

Everyone did get a small boost to hitrate though, that is correct. Barbs got their hit rate negative reduced, Cavs got it increased (though I lowered it to 5% now), and monks got theirs removed. Dodge on barb and ninjas still is the same as it was (negative and positive).

[FrostSlayer]

Passive armor dropped by 50%, chance to absorb and deflect down 10%, but a small chance to get 20% rather than 10% absorb (with lower maxes on absorb) somehow evens out?

More damage coming more often with hit rate, with less mitigation to defend against it. That's what I see...

[NiteHawk]

Passive armor dropped by 50%, chance to absorb and deflect down 10%, but a small chance to get 20% rather than 10% absorb (with lower maxes on absorb) somehow evens out?

Minimum chance is 20% now, there is no more 10%. Maximum absorb is higher as well (used to be 40%, now 50%). In the lingo you use there, it would be 25% to body armor amount of absorb. Shield stayed around the same, as it's minimum was raised as well. (The average is the same that is for shield)

The idea for the body armor bit is to help out classes that can't use a shield though. There was a main focus on the shield more but it needed to be evened out a bit. The amount it absorbs might be raised more too depending on tests.

Absorb was not reduced 10% either, it would be more like 5% of the total chance to absorb (it didn't start at 100)

I'd advise testing it and checking though.

[FrostSlayer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, shield was 100% of ac as block %, which is now 90% of ac as block %, or 10% less

Armor absorb chance was 60% of armor (not sure if armor plus shield or not) as absorb chance, down to 50% absorb chance, or 12% less compared to the old values.

Wouldn't it be more enjoyable if proced more often, but was less effective? That way you would notice it more, the average could still be the same.

[FrostSlayer]

Also, sorry to double post, the people who can't use a shield have other things to make up for it, such as dodge, extra stam, passive armor in the case of monks.

[NiteHawk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, shield was 100% of ac as block %, which is now 90% of ac as block %, or 10% less

Armor absorb chance was 60% of armor (not sure if armor plus shield or not) as absorb chance, down to 50% absorb chance, or 12% less compared to the old values.

Wouldn't it be more enjoyable if proced more often, but was less effective? That way you would notice it more, the average could still be the same.

Sorry your right, I didn't base it correctly.

Armor was recently changed though before this one. It was originally 0.275 for armor and 0.7 for shield. So it was generally done. The absorb chances were alot lower but the absorption when it occurred was alot higher. People complained though that they feel that armor absorption though it works alot more now, it was not effective (10% made people question if it even worked because often 10% on a high roll hit is like dealing low roll hit damage.)

I also felt that it was a bit too high from the changes, because I've seen alot of fights where 3/4 of the time they were absorbing or deflecting. Before hand with 100 ac it was something like 42% absorb and 15% deflect right now, though max would of been around 50% absorb and 20% deflect, totaling 70%. That's high.

In the end alot of classes are missing armor and it's going to bump up the effectiveness too.


Yes, you are correct, but the shield was more benefited though. I.E. it deflected more then 50%. 80 armor monk vs 80 armor slayer means the slayer has a higher edge, because deflect is better if using a shield. IT still is however useful, but I wanted to at least make body armor and shield armor deflects/absorbs similar rates, hence the 50%/50% rather then 40%/60%, which I honestly think is fair for the per point shield gives.

[FrostSlayer]

At the moment, monks have an additional 7.5% chance to negate 100% of the damage, while a 12 ac shield has a 10%ish chance to negate whatever values were implemented. On top of that, they can now absorb more than they could previously. I thought the shield was a good way of countering their extra attack. Also the reduction in passive armor means physical attacks are doing anywhere from 5-10% more damage when they connect right off the bat. Combined with an increased hit rate, that's a lot of damage. Now you just have to hope that your reduced absorb chance kicks in before you are blown away.

[NiteHawk]

At the moment, monks have an additional 7.5% chance to negate 100% of the damage, while a 12 ac shield has a 10%ish chance to negate whatever values were implemented. On top of that, they can now absorb more than they could previously. I thought the shield was a good way of countering their extra attack. Also the reduction in passive armor means physical attacks are doing anywhere from 5-10% more damage when they connect right off the bat. Combined with an increased hit rate, that's a lot of damage. Now you just have to hope that your reduced absorb chance kicks in before you are blown away.

You can't base the 7.5% off vs 10% chance 'loss', that makes no sense to me. If you base the final bonus (7.5%) then you need to base it off what your shield will give. If it is 12 as you say, then its 10.8% to deflect.


But if you take lets say the values here on two standard monks. I think this is around the average on what it is right now:
47 AC MONK vs 64 AC ASSASSIN (12% shield)

47 AC MONK: 23.5% Absorb. (20%-50% removal) This include their bonus to armor obviously.
64 AC ASSASSIN: 26% Absorb + 10.8% deflect = 36.8% (20%-50% removal)

The difference is 13.3% chance to deflect 20-50%. I think you might be also thinking that monks are going to have same AC as medium class users with a shield, which is incorrect. We also aren't even maxed out yet. Monks have one thing and they will prob sit at 52 AC while slayers will probably sit around 74 AC. Shields are probably going to be around 17AC of that, which means they will gain more then monks. I think most items are missing 2-4 AC right now.

You're probably looking at (without humming)

52 AC MONK: 26% Absorb. (20%-50% removal) This include their bonus to armor obviously.
74 AC ASSASSIN: 28.5% Absorb + 15.3% deflect = 43.8% (20%-50% removal)

On top of that, there are humming items, aka rares. This means that Monks can't scale as much as medium class armors, as they cannot wear a helmet or shield, which CAN get the humming bonus. So for monks you get light armor, and for medium/heavy you get at minimum body armor and helmet, but often shield too.

I don't see this being an issue from monks vs medium class here.

[FrostSlayer]

I did say that the shield user has a 10%ish chance to negate damage, I didn't refer at all to the loss or change, I'm referring to the 12ac shield × .9 block chance and compared the two.

I am I also comparing it to what is available now in the game. If these changes are to account for future item balancing then so be it, as I don't have that information I can't draw any conclusions based on that. For me, it was fun to see that block come up when I needed it, it is just less often now. Like you say, upwards of 17ac *.9 block chance is possible in the future, just not today.

[FrostSlayer]

Also it is a bit misleading to add together the absorb chance and the block chance as they are mutually exclusive and independent, and can not occur at the same time.