Ember Online

PvP scene is kinda dead right now. Most people idle so I ran some tests with my brother. This is all after the AC/DODGE/DAMAGE changes. We transfered our characters back and forth had them go at eachother. We used best of 5 (first to three wins) for each of the matches. It's not a huge sample size and this game is random enough so be wary. Everything is DIV neutral. Neither of us had Paladins, Bards, Clerics, Rangers, Thieves and this took enough time as is.

Note: I love drakeblood so alot of the characters I made during super-exp were. There may be better race choices out there, We really did this for our own curiosity don't really have the time to be as thorough as possible. YMMV.

Slayer - Stats
Drakeblood 21 23 20 10 10 13
Slayer vs Ninja 2-3
Slayer vs Cavalier 3-1
Slayer vs Berserker 3-2
Slayer vs Elder Druid 3-2
Slayer vs DeathMage 1-3
Slayer vs Enchanter 1-3(41hp)(needs 3 backstabs)

Observations: 3 Backstabs or if lucky 2 + regular attacks would be a kill. Made it so they atleast had a chance against anyone. I do have a 24 STR Half-Orc which allowed 2 backstabs for a kill but with 19 agi missed alot (Surprise, Surprise). Did not record the HORC data.

Elder Druid Stats- Stats
Gnome Elder Druid 14 21 17 16 23 16
Elf Elder Druid 18 22 18 16 21 16
Halfling Elder Druid 18 23 17 18 20 16

Elder Druid Halfling vs Ninja 23 agi 3-0
Elder Druid Gnome vs Berserker 3-0
Elder Druid Gnome vs Cavalier 1-3
Elder Druid Halfling vs Slayer 2-3
Gnome Elder Druid vs DeathMage 3-1
Elf Elder Druid vs DeathMage 3-1 -
Halfling/Elf Elder Druid vs Enchanter 0-3

Observations: I don't really know how to build druids. We had more than one though so I rotated them a bit.
Seems about even with everyone but had the best chance of the melee with casters as they benefit offensively and defensively from wisdom. Alot of the fights were close but the haste tended to push things in the druids favor.

Berserker - Stats

Berserker:Drakeblood 21 22 20 10 10 19
Berserker Vs Ninja 2-3
Berserker vs Elder Druid 0-3
Berserker vs Slayer 2-3
Berserker vs Cavalier 1-3
Berserker vs Enchanter 0-3
Berserker vs DeathMage 0-3


Observations: Didn't preform as well as one might expect. Can hardly hit a flurry of blows in with the current dodge.

Cavalier - Stats
Cavalier: Drakeblood 21 22 20 10 10 19
Cavalier vs Ninja 0-3
Cavalier Vs Elder Druid 1-3
Cavalier Vs Berserker 3-1
Cavalier vs Slayer 1-3
Cavalier vs DeathMage 0-3
Cavalier vs Enchanter 0-3

Observations: Although the scores won't show it, some of these rounds were close hp wise. We didn't have time to try Dwarf or Ling or some of the more popular, perhaps better races sorry. Mainly did Drakeblood for the Charisma (And it's the favorite race for us lorewise)

Ninja - Stats
Ninja: Drakeblood 21 23 20 10 10 13
Ninja: Goblin 19 22 20 10 17 14

DB Ninja vs Slayer 3-2
DB Ninja vs Cavalier 3-0
DB Ninja vs Elder Druid 0-3
DB Ninja vs Berserker 3-2
DB Ninja vs Enchanter 0-3
DB Ninja vs DeathMage 0-3
Goblin(17 wis) Ninja vs DeathMage 1-3
Goblin(17 wis) vs Enchanter 0-3

Observations: Tried Goblin against the mages. Figured with Goblins natural resistance + Monks class resistance they'd do a bit better. Maybe Dark Elf was what I was looking for? IDK. Seemed okay against other melee.

DeathMage - Stats
DeathMage Elf: 10 23 18 21 21 13
DeathMage vs Ninja 3-0
DeathMage vs Berserker 3-0
DeathMage vs Cavalier 3-0
DeathMage vs Slayer 3-1
Enchanter vs DeathMage 3-0
DeathMage vs Gnome Elder Druid 1-3
DeathMage vs Elf Elder Druid 1-3
DeathMage vs Goblin Ninja(17 wis) 3-1

Observations: Very strong class. The matches against the druids were sometimes within 100 hp, other times not so much. Rot/Blind was a waste of time. Just summon the pet + stoneskin and spam leech. 3 rounds the lizards/dragons with no wis easy-peezy.

Enchanter - Stats
Enchanter Elf: 10 23 18 21 21 13
Enchanter vs Ninja 3-0
Enchanter vs Berserker 3-0
Enchanter vs Cavalier 3-0
Enchanter vs Slayer 3-1
Enchanter vs Gnome Elder Druid 3-0
Enchanter vs DeathMage 3-0
Enchanter vs Gobby Ninja 3-0
Gobby Ninja(17 wis) vs DeathMage 1-3
Slayer vs DeathMage 1-3

Observations: The matches against DeathMage and Druid went faster than expected considering the amount of wisdom(21/23). (Maybe twice as long as when facing the lizard brains, 3 round vs 6-7)


Conclusions:

I didn't really play RealmsofKaos or Nightmist much so I can't really say what can be done to make the game closer to those two (if thats something that's desired). It's just raw data, take it for what it is. I do think melee who chose to go Wisdom (like my goblin monk) should preform slightly better. The Cav/Berserker didn't have +1 agi (instead maxed chr) like my Ninja/Sin so that might of skewed results slightly vs the other DBs. Either way I guess the damage/flurry/ac changes hit Berserker a bit harder than expected (4 attacks in a row rarely ever happened). Casters utterly destroy low wis and do quite well against high wis. Would like to try out Clerics, Rangers, Thieves and Paladins but I don't have the time to make them from scratch. If anyone wants to transfer a 25 of those characters to Account name: (Nocturnalg) I'll do the tests and send them back.

I didn't really play RealmsofKaos or Nightmist much so I can't really say what can be done to make the game closer to those two (if thats something that's desired). It's just raw data, take it for what it is. I do think melee who chose to go Wisdom (like my goblin monk) should preform slightly better. The Cav/Berserker didn't have +1 agi (instead maxed chr) like my Ninja/Sin so that might of skewed results slightly vs the other DBs. Either way I guess the damage/flurry/ac changes hit Berserker a bit harder than expected (4 attacks in a row rarely ever happened). Casters utterly destroy low wis and do quite well against high wis. Would like to try out Clerics, Rangers, Thieves and Paladins but I don't have the time to make them from scratch. If anyone wants to transfer a 25 of those characters to Account name: (Nocturnalg) I'll do the tests and send them back.

Good input. It's hard to test 'fully' with all the races but it does give at least some base ideas on what should be changed. I have to still take a look at MR. They should destroy low WIS chars, and no wis = no MR regardless of bonus (Bonus won't save yoooou). I'm thinking of increasing the MR per race rather then the actual formula. I think the formula is fine, but I didn't really play with the bonuses yet. This will give me a good trial on how I should deal with it.

Flurry won't hit as much, that is true. I think it would be best if flurry was 2 attacks in a row THEN flurry rather than 3 attacks in a row then flurry.

How did you feel about the dodge rate on melee vs melee in general? Was it alright? It's not meant to be over in a round typically. Maybe if slayers get lucky but other then that not so much.

Elders seem to be a bit op. It's probably because of the AGI boost they gain. I think in ROK if you were unmorphed you dodged less in general (ignoring stats) like barbarians do. We should probably bring that back in anyways and nerf the dodge rate a bit anyways so that a unmorphed elder has about 2-3 agi less (like barbarians). That could balance it out. Or we just simply remove the AGI bonus, which could be an easier thing but I don't know how I feel about that.

Slayers are the kings of random luck , I like it that way though. There is nothing like getting an awesome backstab and hitting those high notes. That's what makes them fun. Honestly they seem like they are rather balanced anyways.


Thanks dude.

Good input. It's hard to test 'fully' with all the races but it does give at least some base ideas on what should be changed. I have to still take a look at MR. They should destroy low WIS chars, and no wis = no MR regardless of bonus (Bonus won't save yoooou). I'm thinking of increasing the MR per race rather then the actual formula. I think the formula is fine, but I didn't really play with the bonuses yet. This will give me a good trial on how I should deal with it.

Flurry won't hit as much, that is true. I think it would be best if flurry was 2 attacks in a row THEN flurry rather than 3 attacks in a row then flurry.

How did you feel about the dodge rate on melee vs melee in general? Was it alright? It's not meant to be over in a round typically. Maybe if slayers get lucky but other then that not so much.

Elders seem to be a bit op. It's probably because of the AGI boost they gain. I think in ROK if you were unmorphed you dodged less in general (ignoring stats) like barbarians do. We should probably bring that back in anyways and nerf the dodge rate a bit anyways so that a unmorphed elder has about 2-3 agi less (like barbarians). That could balance it out. Or we just simply remove the AGI bonus, which could be an easier thing but I don't know how I feel about that.

Slayers are the kings of random luck , I like it that way though. There is nothing like getting an awesome backstab and hitting those high notes. That's what makes them fun. Honestly they seem like they are rather balanced anyways.


Thanks dude.

Melee vs Melee is about 4-8 rounds. Depending if the character lands. A GOOD round from any class will leave you about 25% - 33% hp (Like a RH round ) but those are atypical (Usually 0-2 hits land per round with varying levels of deflect.) I agree you don't want things over too fast but it's hard to say. These are all attacking at the same exact time in a controlled environment, moshes, TGCs, open world, groups, div no div can be factors. Really hard for me to judge where things should be at with the whole picture in mind.

Berserker change could be whats needed. Would have to test.


Yeah the Morphed Elders ran around with 24-26 agility + the haste really added up over the course of the fight. A lot of the more balanced fights came down to who is going to land the last couple hits when both guys are 100-300 hp and haste pretty much ensures it's going to be the druid. And if it's not the Druid, his agi is going to make you miss more often than not. I mentioned earlier that Wisdom double dips for Druid exclusively but agi double dips for everybody as hit rate/dodge rate so they kind of get the best of both worlds. I like the idea of being vulnerable when unmorphed. Definitely very strong though.

I received a priest! (Thanks Satsujin!) Unfortunately it's thunder div and most of my characters are earth so the priest may be at a disadvantage for some of these tests. I will note the div status for each test.

Priest 12 22 18 22 20 12

Priest vs Berserker 3-0 (Neutral Div)
Notes: Zerker had no chance. I'd heal once every other round for 353 and he'd do an average of like 150 per round(one hit, sometimes two, sometimes i'd deflect all damage)
I realize that heals are strong in 1v1 so I did TGC rules from this point on. At MAX 1 Heal per fight for the ones below. Let's try it again!

Priest vs Berserker 3-0 (Neutral Div) - Rematch
Notes:Didn't matter.

Priest vs Cav 3-0 (Light vs Earth)
Note: Ray will land 3/4x atleast. Whilst the melee usually hit about 0/4 to 2/4 with a deflects sprinkled in.
Poor cav had div advantage and still got destroyed. Don't even dare try to play with low wis against even a priest.


Priest vs drakeblood Monk 3-0 (Neutral div)
Note: The 1 heal felt optional. Another case of the wisdom.


Priest vs Goblin(17 wis) Monk 2-3 (Light vs Earth)
Note: The goblin had div over the priest but it remained close despite the 17 wis.

Priest vs Deathmage (Light vs Earth) 0-3
Note: Deathmage had div on the priest and utterly annihilated him.

Priest vs Enchanter 0-3 (Light vs Earth)
Note: Same as above. Div advantage for Chanter not even close.


Priest vs Gnome Druid 0-3(Light vs Earth)
Note:Druid made quick work of the priest, not even close. Div advantage for druid

Priest vs Halfling Druid[20 Wis] (Neutral Div) 3-1
NoteClose fight with no heals. Priest wins usually with 1 heal.


Conclusion: Woah 97 AC with the new hit rate on a priest seems crazy for 1v1. I thought Cav would see the most benefit from the AC changes but Priest is just way more accurate offensively. Some typical excerpts from the Halfling Druid vs Priest Battle

Hunt attacks you with his claws, but your armor absorbs the blow!
Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
Hunt attacks you with his claws, but your armor absorbs most of the blow for 27 points of damage!
Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
You are too exhausted.
You cast ray at Hunt, but he is unaffected!
You cast ray at Hunt, but he is unaffected!
You cast ray at Hunt for 95 points of damage!
You cast ray at Hunt for 92 points of damage!

Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
Hunt attacks you with his claws for 88 points of damage!
Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
You cast heal on yourself...
You healed yourself for 383 hit points!
You cast ray at Hunt for 92 points of damage!
You cast ray at Hunt for 92 points of damage!
You cast ray at Hunt, but he is unaffected!

Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
You cast ray at Hunt, but he is unaffected!
Hunt attacks you with his claws, but your armor absorbs some of the blow for 77 points of damage!
You are too exhausted.
Hunt attacks you with his claws, but your shield deflects most of the blow for 22 points of damage!
You are too exhausted.
Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!


Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
Hunt attacks you with his claws for 103 points of damage!
Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
Hunt attacks you with his claws and misses!
You are too exhausted.
You cast ray at Hunt, but he is unaffected!
You cast ray at Hunt, but he is unaffected!
You cast ray at Hunt for 92 points of damage!
You cast ray at Hunt for 87 points of damage!

This seems to be about the usual case. 1/4 usually physical attacks give or take one with random deflects for melee. 3/4 rays usually against low wis, 2/4 rays average against high wis for priest.

Having fought a lot of Elders with my casters, it's not their stats or damage. Remove Haste and they die very fast. Haste is the overwhelming advantage they get. It may not seem like much, but in a typical battle they end up just overwhelming whatever they face with the speed of their assault. In every dual against an Elder without haste no matter the character I've used, I win and the Elder dies. Removing Haste would nerf them but right now it seems it might be op.

I agree that zerkers should probably be getting their flurry after 2 hits. Even a 24 agi zerker misses a lot so getting a flurry in pvp now is difficult. With their disadvantages, I've only done good with mine in battles with ninjas. I know that sounds wierd but since both characters missed a lot, the flurry/roundhouse wasn't a factor. I can say the ninja roundhouse was vastly more effective than zerker flurry in those fights.

This will be a battle of little tweak following little tweak to get these classes balanced.

Priest vs DM comes down to who runs out of mana first. Priests vs most other classes is all about mana conservation. Honestly, Priests do better against most classes when they use their weapon and save their mana. The exception is lizard and no wis characters. Still, I think they are solid now.

Kruell wrote:Having fought a lot of Elders with my casters, it's not their stats or damage. Remove Haste and they die very fast. Haste is the overwhelming advantage they get. It may not seem like much, but in a typical battle they end up just overwhelming whatever they face with the speed of their assault. In every dual against an Elder without haste no matter the character I've used, I win and the Elder dies. Removing Haste would nerf them but right now it seems it might be op.

I agree that zerkers should probably be getting their flurry after 2 hits. Even a 24 agi zerker misses a lot so getting a flurry in pvp now is difficult. With their disadvantages, I've only done good with mine in battles with ninjas. I know that sounds wierd but since both characters missed a lot, the flurry/roundhouse wasn't a factor. I can say the ninja roundhouse was vastly more effective than zerker flurry in those fights.

This will be a battle of little tweak following little tweak to get these classes balanced.

Priest vs DM comes down to who runs out of mana first. Priests vs most other classes is all about mana conservation. Honestly, Priests do better against most classes when they use their weapon and save their mana. The exception is lizard and no wis characters. Still, I think they are solid now.

Haste could be 1 second instead of two rather then lowering their AGI overall but I think they still need a minor overall, not as much as a barbarians, while unmorphed. I will test this out though and we will see.

Priests will never die 1vs1. They are a power healing class. They aren't designed to be taken out 1vs1.

Would it be okay to give 5% bonus to overall agi and start it around 40% instead of 35%? I'm not sure on this, the dodge seems OK but maybe people feel like you need a little more.

Also I just realized you tested magic against drakebloods, they are the lowest resists, pretty much 0%. Class gives a bonus Ninjas is 12%, but you only have 12 wisdom max, drakebloods are magic meat.

Drakebloods are 0%.
Gnomes are highest, I think around 20%.

So the reason why you did so well against the necros is purely because of that probably. Higher wisdom will be better yeah, if you sacrifice it on a character it'll be your fault though!


The actual resists effect IF you have wisdom, I.E.

Race Modifier * Class Modifier * Actual Wisdom Calculation.

It is not

Race Modifier + Class Modifier + Wisdom Calculation.

It means that per point you'll gain more wisdom, but your cutoff is going to be higher. So a drakeblood ninja is a bad choice to pit against spell users. They are spell immune and will get wrecked. They only have 12 wisdom anyways. So I can't really modify the MR yet because it's pretty valid. You really need to test however with other races. Comparing magic vs drakebloods won't work, they are guaranteed to get wrecked. So for the magic fights I'll have to disregard those for now.

If you want to fight against magic users you'll need to use races that have at least 16 wis. If you go for the heavy melee races then you'll lack in the magic resistance department.

I think the MR does need a boost overall still, don't get me wrong though.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

That is the values for MR testing right now. The only thing you should change is WISDOM, race, and class.

EDIT: NEVERMIND


I am making some slight modifications atm to MR.

New sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

As posted on the dev blog:

1.3.0.9b
-Rebalanced class MR starting with 15% on monks and going down from there.
-Added the ablilty to modify the MR on the fly without rebooting the server.
-Modified the modifier values so that MR has more impact. You should resist more. May need to be lowered
-I had to rebalance the resistances on spells like SAP/FF/Rot/etc (spells that give a negative effect). Needs testing to see how well the MR performs on spells with modified MR from the normal. (It should be harder to do against wisdom based characters because if it is successful, typically it lasts longer. More Wisdom is more resistance, but more duration too!)
-Druids have a 5% overall dodge nerf (about 1 agi point)
-Bear form at level 25 should give 1 agi point now too.
-Druids HASTE is only 1 second instead of 2. If this is too low now we can move it up to 1.5.
-Zerkers only need to hit twice to activate rage rather then three times.
-ROT damage has been upped to around 130 with 23int, and the duration is cut in half. The poison damage is about double now.
-Zerkers upped to 10% HP bonus (no MR beefcakes). Knights are upped to 12.5% HP as well.
-Stalk is now reduced to 300 seconds, or 5 minutes.



MR might be too high now, but it is a game of hotter/colder until we get the right values. Druid might need some haste duration back, but we will see.

Already well aware of the drakeblood vs casters drawbacks as i mentioned in the original post, there was no case of any misconception about how wisdom currently works from me. They don't need to be disregarded for one they proved that low wis (race/stats) combo vs casters is working as intended. Secondly it showed that assassins have a "puncher's chance" to take a match against anyone, regardless of class/wis/etc (also working as intended) . And finally, I felt the goblin (highest mr fighter class) combo was under preforming. I thought that was clear. As quoted here

I do think melee who chose to go Wisdom (like my goblin monk) should preform slightly better.

and here

Observations: Tried Goblin against the mages. Figured with Goblins natural resistance + Monks class resistance they'd do a bit better. Maybe Dark Elf was what I was looking for? IDK. Seemed okay against other melee.

And to repeat myself, the stats of the goblin Ninja was : 19 22 20 10 17 14

I'll try again with the new values.

Yeah it was a bit low before but it should be hopefully okay now. I know you talked about the goblin and that's the one I took the checks/test for on these changes, but it did sound like you were testing MR with Drakes too. My bad. The whole reason for the MR change now was I also thought the MR was a bit too low for a goblin monk which should be at least just above average.

Assassins I left the same, they are pretty good as they are I think, yeah.