Group buffs

[Folder]

So when you're in a full group and you need to buff people, it kinda sucks.

-If you are a sorc and need to buff SS/Power that's up to 12 buffs - 3 rounds + probably you will fizzle one of those.
-Other buffers have "just" 6 spells to cast, but that is still 1.5 rounds.
-Buffs don't last long enough to kill OaD bosses so rebuffing needs to happen 2-3 times depending on fight.
-Buffs are happening regardless of this annoyance because they make a huge difference.
-Seeing buff fizzles in the middle of a boss fight can be very difficult with how fast text is scrolling.
-There's no such thing as buff shearing in Ember so once buffs are up they aren't going anywhere (meaning it's not a buff to...buffs)

Suggestion:
-Group versions of buff spells (Stoneskin, Power, Haste). Of course make them cost a proper amount of mana but otherwise duration can be the same. Could potentially make the buffs drop if the buffer leaves group for the sake of fairness.

[Kawasaki]

I think that's the void that Bard/Minstrel is meant to fill, with their one song its str and ac for every character in the group. Not sure but I think giving the other classes the ability to do this might kill the need for a bard/minstrel

[Folder]

In my experience a minstrel is used for heal song, they hardly ever get to run str/ac because nothing competes with heal song on some OaDs.

I mean let's be honest a chanter is already better than a minstrel on anything where heal song is not required (more damage + pet spam). This is simply a QoL change for them.

[Eld]

Part of me favours leaving it as it is, atm during a busy OAD run 4/6 of the players are mindlessly spamming f1 with one hand and scratching their nuts with the other.

At least the mage has a bit of variety mixed in and i feel we need to encourage that for other classes rather than make mages easy mode too.

Thoughts?

[JadeFalcon]

I think i agree with Eld.
I would be more concerned that either the bard heal song is too strong, or the ac/str are too weak, if they never get used.

[Folder]

I'm all for more skills and buttons but cmon guys. Is it adding fun and gameplay depth to buff groups 1 person at a time? Surely if that is the argument against this then we can have a discussion about additional class skills/spells.

JF it's not a balance issue really. You need heal song + str/ac for optimal oad runs. You could take 2 bards but chanter can do the same buffs while bringing a pet, sap and more dps.

There's a reason people complain about playing priest/chanter and that is because of all the extra effort required. Never ever heard someone say they like being chanter on oad runs because buffing people over and over is fun.

Totally all for spell and skill variety but let's not think small and limit that to simply having to buff individually.

Edit: worth mentioning that druids don't haste groups in general. This would help them be more welcome to groups.

[daedroth]

If balance is an issue, have the group spells use all attacks at an increased cost compared to the normal spell (normal spell cost*targets*1.#).
I miss the cleric life-tap? spell (a light healing spell to all people in the party) and the sorcy's Magestrom (a light damage spell to all people out of the party), anyway I digress.

[Folder]

Sure there's nothing wrong with making a group buff take all your stam, I think it should do that. It can cost more too as long as it's not prohibitively expensive.

[Kawasaki]

Did a little testing:
Level 25 PP shop song 2


Power and Stoneskin from 22 int enchanter


base stats


Not the perfect test but just something I was able to throw together, This means that with an instrument with power of 25 that the minstrel has more AC and Str than with an enchanter.

[Lissy]

I've been chewing on this for a little bit, trying to figure out why I didn't like this idea. I think I've settled on the issue of decreased variability: a party will either be buffed or not buffed, rather than having its individual constituents be buffed or not buffed. In the scheme of things, a ninja that does not have stoneskin because it fizzled will probably not make the difference in whether a party fails at an OAD or event, but the lack of SS might increase the complexity of the task and make an OAD run less... uniform.

I also think it is the responsibility of the buffee, not the buffer, to notice whether SS fails. That makes my job as a ninja more than just spamming F4 (yes, F4, not F1) - I also have to pay attention to spells and communicate to my party whether I need them. I already get off easy enough on OAD runs; it doesn't need to be easier.