Unaffect scaling

[NiteHawk]

As I said in another post, I think the 25 to 92% MR scaling is a bit extreme. HOs do have the bonus against Lings (though its little atm) and they should have a chance to kill HO. Same goes for Sorcs trying to kill lings. and same for Hos trying to kill sorcs.

I don't think it needs a giant change, just some tweaks. It will also help out if you don't have max INT either if its not so extreme which will help out other classes if you prefer something other then gnome. With that said I also think it needs to be more impacting then AGI formula is. Theres alot more variables that come into play like class and race MR too.

[Terron]

int shouldn't matter at all. int should be fizzles and a damage stat very similar to strength, strength stat offers more variance because its only damage you can lose a little to balance your stats to preference on half the races. int has no variance whatsoever it must be relatively high currently same as agi. just a few points off and you turn that enemy dark elf into a supergnome.


perhaps you can balance the whole system through MR tweaks. but i find it alot easier to use that wisdom formula i posted up there, and use mr to modify incoming spell damage. because you can make a 23 wis gnome survive the exact number of hits from magic as a dwarf 23 con does in melee. and the hit rates for everything are even up.

basically you would end up with something like: (using the average melee character 21 str/average chanter 21 int)
-test average and let the rest go unless its causing a massive problem

24 con dwarf survives 10.5 hits in melee on average /24 wis elemental survives 10.5 hits versus magic
23 con dwarf/horc survives 9.5 / 23 wis ele/gnome survive 9.5
etc


anyway your game your rules ;P , but i will say 1 thing. my monk will be the only character with no mr i ever train. its all mass mr and mages for me at this point. and apparently most agree. its crazy to me that because a mage slings spells it can have a virtual 40 agility in a sense. i want one no i want 10

[NiteHawk]

int shouldn't matter at all. int should be fizzles and a damage stat very similar to strength, strength stat offers more variance because its only damage you can lose a little to balance your stats to preference on half the races. int has no variance whatsoever it must be relatively high currently same as agi. just a few points off and you turn that enemy dark elf into a supergnome.


perhaps you can balance the whole system through MR tweaks. but i find it alot easier to use that wisdom formula i posted up there, and use mr to modify incoming spell damage. because you can make a 23 wis gnome survive the exact number of hits from magic as a dwarf 23 con does in melee. and the hit rates for everything are even up.

basically you would end up with something like: (using the average melee character 21 str/average chanter 21 int)
-test average and let the rest go unless its causing a massive problem

24 con dwarf survives 10.5 hits in melee on average /24 wis elemental survives 10.5 hits versus magic
23 con dwarf/horc survives 9.5 / 23 wis ele/gnome survive 9.5
etc


anyway your game your rules ;P , but i will say 1 thing. my monk will be the only character with no mr i ever train. its all mass mr and mages for me at this point. and apparently most agree. its crazy to me that because a mage slings spells it can have a virtual 40 agility in a sense. i want one no i want 10

Hmm I'm not so sure about not using INT at all. It can be less effective yes, but I think it should play some part. That is like going in battle with 10AGI and knowing you'll hit someone regardless. I do get that it's too extreme of a change right now but the formula should equate it so that someone with 10 INT isn't piercing though like someone who has 23 INT.

You can say 'but str and agi are different stats, int should just be like str!' but spell classes require a minimum of INT, END, AGI, and WISDOM to be effective in combat, not just STR, AGI, END.

[Terron]

im pretty sure a character is only valid if it has the primary 3 statistics. dmg life avoidance. in the mages case wisdom isnt needed at all in that scenario they only need the same 3 stats int agi end. wisdom in a whole is only used to help versus mages.

int already pierces in 3 ways
-less fizzles
-more damage
-higher spell hit rate

its a triple standard.

imagine for a second if strength affect'd hit rate ,misses, and damage output and pvp hit rate wasnt at 40% half orcs would 2 round everything the same as mages do to them. tbh the half orc thing isnt even the worst, saurians have crap hps on top of no resists lol.

[NiteHawk]

im pretty sure a character is only valid if it has the primary 3 statistics. dmg life avoidance. in the mages case wisdom isnt needed at all in that scenario they only need the same 3 stats int agi end. wisdom in a whole is only used to help versus mages.

int already pierces in 3 ways
-less fizzles
-more damage
-higher spell hit rate

its a triple standard.

imagine for a second if strength affect'd hit rate ,misses, and damage output and pvp hit rate wasnt at 40% half orcs would 2 round everything the same as mages do to them. tbh the half orc thing isnt even the worst, saurians have crap hps on top of no resists lol.

Well, agree to disagree I suppose. I do agree that MR and INT need far better scaling, but disagree with a few points anyways. I'll be looking into this soon anywho.

[Terron]

there isnt really anything to agree or disagree on. its your choice.

it can be summed up in 1 question. "do you think spells having hit rates above and beyond any possible hit rate of melee is fair?"

i don't care either way honestly, i dont have to use a horc or saurian. its fine either way imo.

left as is its more like a 2 tier system with scaling melee efficiency dropping magical resistance. in that system saurian horc and drake are like niche builds used to hunt other weaker melee variants. basically the same as a gnome monk would be niche to make a mage worthless. it just isnt that 3 tier system that's been mentioned 40+x. instead of a 3 way balance its a 2 way balance of decent MR vs spells with a bunch of majorly flawed niche characters roaming around.

[Reaper]

I don't understand this mindset that you need to be a gnome ninja. Halfling bards, goblin berserkers, DE Slayers,Almost any ninja other than saurian, HO, or Drakeblood and even those stand a fair chance. These are just a few classes, not counting elders which are obviously good that wipe the floor with me on Reaper. There is always a chance I could win, but those classes I have fought and consistently kill me in 1v1.

[NiteHawk]

I don't understand this mindset that you need to be a gnome ninja. Halfling bards, goblin berserkers, DE Slayers,Almost any ninja other than saurian, HO, or Drakeblood and even those stand a fair chance. These are just a few classes, not counting elders which are obviously good that wipe the floor with me on Reaper. There is always a chance I could win, but those classes I have fought and consistently kill me in 1v1.

You don't. Any race with 20 or more wisdom right now is pretty much a sure win against you.

[Terron]

the whole 20+ wisdom owns mages thing is a bit skewed. everyone just lumps it into a battle and goes oh my mage lost. why did they lose? taking a DE monk, for instance, resists about 55% and the gnome mage "resists" pretty much the same 55% of the melee the (23 agi vs 21) elf is tossing. alot of the time its HP and luck alone.
elf and gnome are very close to same hps, however you toss a gobby in there instead and the mage hits a few % chance more but has to hit 1-2 more times on average. that is a large difference.

currently the system leaves about half the characters balanced in a sense, the other half are situational. either heavy melee to hunt the balanced melee classes or heavy MR to hunt mages. dont get me wrong the system works and is fun it just isn't perfect.

1v1 isnt always the biggest problem. take for instance if a group of 3 melee characters jump on someone and try to pk them, if everyone is at 23 agi (seems to be the case most often) ill do ninja cuz the math is easier. each hits 2x, 6 hits doesn't even kill the person without multiple roundhouse. if 3 mages jump on anything with lower end MR its like auto-kill. if already seen dozens of group fights, mages are immensely OP in that area of the game.

also on the subject rots poison isn't being removed after death i've seen 3x now that a player gets pked hits temple then dies a second tme immediately to a poison tick lol. i thought it was hysterical at the time but with sickness timers active it might need fixed lol.

[Styx]

No or lower magic is the same thing as going into battle with no armor.would you just go running naked carrying a sword and expect to not get hurt?

If you built your char with no ability in wis then you decided to be a melee only cause almost everyone was melee. Oh my toon has 25 str and hits for xxx dammage,

Build char more suitable to fighting magic classes

After night hawk adjusts magic resis then people can complain cause oh I can kill off this person, or oh that dude is just to powerful

Personally barb need to loose having 3 flurry attacks, a ninja only gets 1 and possible 2 roundhouse if lucky, barb thereform could be overpowered?

Then again isn't that the job of a slayer to be a 1 or 2 hit your dead? It's a assassin, they are supposed to kill instantly .