Druid/Elder Druid

[anthriel]

Honestly, I think it's fine, its one decimal point, part of strength. if 1 strength gives you 6 damage, then 0.5 strength gives you 3 damage. Bonus strength is the same with spells, songs, etc. If I remove it from one, it removes from all. There is no damage multiplier bonus that happens on morph, and never will be.

So if 32 STR means actually 32 STR then are we correct in making the following comparable assessments re all the stats?

An Elemental Elder Druid with 14 19 20 15 24 10 in cat morph (32 22.8 20 15 24 10) will be have approximately:

--> +6 STR on an average HO Cav (32 STR vs 24 STR)
--> almost the same AGI/Dodge/Hitrate as an average Halfling (22.8 AGI vs 23 AGI)
--> same hitpoints as an average Gob/Drake/Human H2H class (20 END) and which far exceeds most other spellcaster builds with 17-18 END
--> Better MR than the average Gnome Chanter (24 WIS vs 22 WIS)... i think with additional racial bonus of reduced incoming spell damage?
--> +2 AC over the next best cat morph (Gnome Elder) and probably +6 AC over that of most other race druids ... which is equivalent to several tiers of +1 equipment difference
--> Best Mana pool of any Healer class build
--> better INT than the best Saurian/Horc (15 INT)... basically still seems able to use Faeriefire effectively.

If this is the case, then I can see why Lateralus observed everyone wants to make Elemental Druids... you pretty much have a master race/class combo that is comparable to some of the best stats of other race/class combinations all rolled into 1. It basically excels at H2H combat, with top tier magic defence, reasonable survivability and while still being an average spell caster etc... no obvious weaknesses to any other race/class combo.

imho this is due to probably allowing Elementals base 23 Wis. If they were only allowed base 22 WIS then it would probably level things somewhat. Or if Gnomes were allowed base 23 WIS that would level things b/w Elemental/Gnome (i.e. it becomes a tradeoff between AGI vs END) but then the other race druids are still getting left in the dust. Otherwise the balance may need to be from the formula for incremental scaling of each +1 WIS on morph... atm its quite substantial so 24 WIS leaves most other races who can only access max 21 WIS (e.g. ling, human, dwarf, DE etc who can even only do so by accepting like <12 Int) in the dust and with Gnomes and Elves also barely able to keep up. Perhaps a morph formula that takes into account Base AGI/STR more would be better... ie if you made a DE druid with 20 STR and 22 AGI that would still be decent with morph at 20 WIS instead of being instantaneously overtaken by a race that just allows pumping of high WIS and ignoring base AGI/STR (i.e. the 14 STR 19 AGI Elemental with 24 WIS)

/shrugs... NH, I know you are probably very busy with more pressing things and this may not be the top of the priority list but just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the world of druid balancing... Thank you for all your continual hard work in revisions to make the game into the best possible experience for us players

[Folder]

If I'm not mistaken classes have damage modifiers or whatever you want to call it. This is why people say power on a druid is useless because they do less damage per point of str. Am I wrong here? I mean a same str cav does way more damage than a same str ranger or minstrel, for example.

32 str druid =/ a 32 str, well, anything else.

PS wtb 32 str slayer .

[anthriel]

If I'm not mistaken classes have damage modifiers or whatever you want to call it. This is why people say power on a druid is useless because they do less damage per point of str. Am I wrong here? I mean a same str cav does way more damage than a same str ranger or minstrel, for example.

32 str druid =/ a 32 str, well, anything else.

PS wtb 32 str slayer .

Ah ok I think based on your explanation that X Str isn't really comparable between classes I think I better understand the whole discussion about Power etc now

I guess even if 32 Str Elemental Cat morphed Druid is roughly equivalent to 85-100% damage output of 24 Str Horc Cav (which I suspect) then that probably still makes them better H2H than most other H2H classes and it doesn't reduce the comparison above in my previous post illustrating that that they are probably good/decent at everything and without any major area of weakness.

[NiteHawk]

Yes there is a class modifier and druids are generally lower which means they can have higher STR that compares to other classes without the bonus.

You are correct though. They probably only get around 75% of what other classes get but it's not terrible in any means. That's just something they'll have to deal with being the jack of all trades or aiming to be that.

The actual STR can be reduced slightly so that the variance is less though if that would help. I wouldn't lower the actual damage, and elementals would still have 32 str or whatever it is, but if the issue is that the STR may be too far apart we can adjust that. AGI has to hold something here (and I think it does). but the question is, whats the fine balance from the lower STR/high AGI to high STR/moderate or low AGI.

[Lateralus]

Yes there is a class modifier and druids are generally lower which means they can have higher STR that compares to other classes without the bonus.

You are correct though. They probably only get around 75% of what other classes get but it's not terrible in any means. That's just something they'll have to deal with being the jack of all trades or aiming to be that.

The actual STR can be reduced slightly so that the variance is less though if that would help. I wouldn't lower the actual damage, and elementals would still have 32 str or whatever it is, but if the issue is that the STR may be too far apart we can adjust that. AGI has to hold something here (and I think it does). but the question is, whats the fine balance from the lower STR/high AGI to high STR/moderate or low AGI.

What I'm saying is why not just have their str actually reflect their damage at 100% so it's not confusing and power matters on them like it does on the rest of the classes.

For example if their str is 32 but only at 75% then why not just have their str at 24? I know that leaves the ranges a bit low for progression but we have decimals so it shouldn't really matter?

[NiteHawk]

Yes there is a class modifier and druids are generally lower which means they can have higher STR that compares to other classes without the bonus.

You are correct though. They probably only get around 75% of what other classes get but it's not terrible in any means. That's just something they'll have to deal with being the jack of all trades or aiming to be that.

The actual STR can be reduced slightly so that the variance is less though if that would help. I wouldn't lower the actual damage, and elementals would still have 32 str or whatever it is, but if the issue is that the STR may be too far apart we can adjust that. AGI has to hold something here (and I think it does). but the question is, whats the fine balance from the lower STR/high AGI to high STR/moderate or low AGI.

What I'm saying is why not just have their str actually reflect their damage at 100% so it's not confusing and power matters on them like it does on the rest of the classes.

For example if their str is 32 but only at 75% then why not just have their str at 24? I know that leaves the ranges a bit low for progression but we have decimals so it shouldn't really matter?

Cause your not understanding how the formula works. They aren't doing 75% damage in morph. The class formula is lower for druids. That's all I mean.

If knights had a class multiplier of 1.0, then druids would be 0.75. This is in or out of morph. The per point of damage doesn't change when morphed or not. It is 100% of what the class does, again morphed or not.

[killa]

I'm wanting to make a elder and was going to go elf, wanted to know if anyone knew and could post the morph stats for different races (elf gnome elemental mainly) at 25 so I could compare them? THANKS

the stats of the one I rolled are elf 18 22 18 17 21 10

I'm not sure if anyone even knows, just wanted to see

[Folder]

Shoot man just go elemental and win everything.

I don't actually know elf morphed stats, I'm -pretty- sure all morphed stats are hidden somewhere deep within the forums.

[killa]

ya I'm not worried so much about winning, I got a elf chanter dm and guard I figured why not just follow suit, I know its not best for any of those classes why start caring now Its like when I made a horc slayer, everyone laughed at me NOW WHATS UP? The game is still in its infancy, but I sifted through every page of this thread anyway didn't see anything that answered my question but I guess I don't need an answer ill just get to leveling and find out

[Folder]

You could check with Drew on discord, I know he plays (and advocates) an elf.