Gold and You

[Folder]

No quests no gold!

[Man]

This is slightly skewed due to me training with a party the entirety of the level as well as having all the items for the quests which I got with a Berserker.

Level: 21-22
Race/Class: Gnome Cleric
Potions: 6750 gold
Food: 0
Quests: 16,000 gold
Leveling:
Spells: 0
Total Gold level 21: 179,260
Total Gold level 22: 198,453
Total Profit: 19,193 (actual profit lower, see below)

Comment: Smite and training in a party helps a lot. Also helpful was getting all the drops on an alt, meaning I could sell the subsequent drops... i.e. the 20 bones I had laying around made me and extra 4,000 gold on the character. I would assume actual profit was closer to 5-8k when you count the drops that I was able to sell due to getting them on an alt.

[daedroth]

No quests no gold!

I avoid most quests. I am swimming in gold. Litterally. I have filled a small swimming pool.

[Man]

Level: 22-23
Race/Class: Gnome Cleric
Mana: 17,025 gold
Food: 250 (I was lucky to get lots of wine drops)
Quests: 0 (half way done with 50 rotting dead quest)
Leveling: 10,000
Spells: 0
Total Gold level 22: 198,453
Total Gold level 23: 194,176
Total Profit: -4,277

Comment: Training Clerics suck. I would hope that this changes. The amount of gold you lose when training a cleric is absolutely insane. The fact that other classes can just go in to a temple and heal for less than what pots cost, but magic cant do that with their mana is ridiculous. Not only that, but rations which cost 2-5 gold pretty much heals your entire health bar, wines cannot do this and cost more. Often you need 2 wines, which means you're sitting around twice the amount of time as fighting classes (which literally make hundred of thousands more gold than spell casters).

Not only do clerics make no gold, they're not exactly fun to train either. As well, it doesn't even really feel like a cleric to me, feels more like a mage that can heal itself. You start off with a mage like spell in Ray which deals more damage to monsters until you get aid, and even then you're only doing about 100 damage (for 20 mana!!!!!). It doesn't start to get better until you finally (and thankfully) get smite, which allows me to do about 160 damage for 8 mana, and even them I'm losing gold leveling.

Now, as what's his face said above, nope, didn't do many quests, you know why, because they're horrible to do on a cleric. Even now at 23, my best way to hurt non-undead monsters is Ray, which deals approximately 75 points of damage. That means, say against a dreadbeast, I would be averaging 225 damage if I never fizzle compared to my berserker who was averaging 500+ with the level 1 weapon it came with (at 23). Even on undead monsters the berserker still averages more damage as it's currently equipped and it doesn't need any mana for that.

Now don't get me wrong, not every class has to be the same, but seems a bit insane to me for a class that at bosses is just healing people.

[NiteHawk]

Clerics are meant to be a bit tougher as they can make a party survive way longer in PVP and PVE situations. Magic is meant to be more 'rare' than HP, as spells are often unique, and can grant alot more than just purely attacking when it comes to situations (And often your heavy zerker will die to a spell caster because of lack of MR.) Comparing a zerker to a cleric is like night and day though I'd say.

I would probably stick to the area with the rotten dead and such to level as they should be pretty high level (I think level 24 for the rotten dead) so going to the dreadlands is probably going to lower XP per hour I would think. We could use another undead area in the future though so there is more the one area so it doesn't get crowded for undead in the 23-24 level area. Would probably help overall though.

Can look at the damage for undead on clerics though in the future. Maybe it can be the same as pallies rather than losing out on damage (They get I believe -50 damage for being a cleric, but maybe can be increased, maybe only -20 less or again, the same). Ray is generally meant to be a weak spell overall.

To me, out of leveling, clerics are pretty OP right now.

Can take a look at drink costs though too. That's something that can be looked at.

[Man]

Clerics are meant to be a bit tougher as they can make a party survive way longer in PVP and PVE situations. Magic is meant to be more 'rare' than HP, as spells are often unique, and can grant alot more than just purely attacking when it comes to situations (And often your heavy zerker will die to a spell caster because of lack of MR.) Comparing a zerker to a cleric is like night and day though I'd say.

I would probably stick to the area with the rotten dead and such to level as they should be pretty high level (I think level 24 for the rotten dead) so going to the dreadlands is probably going to lower XP per hour I would think. We could use another undead area in the future though so there is more the one area so it doesn't get crowded for undead in the 23-24 level area. Would probably help overall though.

Can look at the damage for undead on clerics though in the future. Maybe it can be the same as pallies rather than losing out on damage (They get I believe -50 damage for being a cleric, but maybe can be increased, maybe only -20 less or again, the same). Ray is generally meant to be a weak spell overall.

To me, out of leveling, clerics are pretty OP right now.

Can take a look at drink costs though too. That's something that can be looked at.

I don't know if the issue is so much the cost of drinking wine, thats only like 24 gold, its the having to drink 2 of them and sit for 40 seconds while doing it. From 15 to 23 I trained in the graveyard and will continue to do that, I'm was in general just replying to how Folder said no quests = no gold, which sucks as a cleric because doing quests on them isnt very viable due to their low monster damage outside of undead. I would agree Ray is a weak spell and should be, however until level 18 its the best spell clerics have damage wise, well at least on my cleric which is 22 int 22 wis, it just seemed to fizzle more often.

I think more so the issue is that I was using 2 wines, killing 1 monster and was out of mana again. You're either stuck sitting around 30% of the time you're on drinking wine or you're paying 270 gold for 2 rune orbs to kill a monster that drops 80 gold until you're level 20. At level 20 you get Smite and you now get to lose slightly less gold while leveling.

[NiteHawk]

Clerics are meant to be a bit tougher as they can make a party survive way longer in PVP and PVE situations. Magic is meant to be more 'rare' than HP, as spells are often unique, and can grant alot more than just purely attacking when it comes to situations (And often your heavy zerker will die to a spell caster because of lack of MR.) Comparing a zerker to a cleric is like night and day though I'd say.

I would probably stick to the area with the rotten dead and such to level as they should be pretty high level (I think level 24 for the rotten dead) so going to the dreadlands is probably going to lower XP per hour I would think. We could use another undead area in the future though so there is more the one area so it doesn't get crowded for undead in the 23-24 level area. Would probably help overall though.

Can look at the damage for undead on clerics though in the future. Maybe it can be the same as pallies rather than losing out on damage (They get I believe -50 damage for being a cleric, but maybe can be increased, maybe only -20 less or again, the same). Ray is generally meant to be a weak spell overall.

To me, out of leveling, clerics are pretty OP right now.

Can take a look at drink costs though too. That's something that can be looked at.

I don't know if the issue is so much the cost of drinking wine, thats only like 24 gold, its the having to drink 2 of them and sit for 40 seconds while doing it. From 15 to 23 I trained in the graveyard and will continue to do that, I'm was in general just replying to how Folder said no quests = no gold, which sucks as a cleric because doing quests on them isnt very viable due to their low monster damage outside of undead. I would agree Ray is a weak spell and should be, however until level 18 its the best spell clerics have damage wise, well at least on my cleric which is 22 int 22 wis, it just seemed to fizzle more often.

I think more so the issue is that I was using 2 wines, killing 1 monster and was out of mana again. You're either stuck sitting around 30% of the time you're on drinking wine or you're paying 270 gold for 2 rune orbs to kill a monster that drops 80 gold until you're level 20. At level 20 you get Smite and you now get to lose slightly less gold while leveling.

Magic is meant to take longer overall. It's impact is more useful then HP when you base it outside of just clerics especially.

Smite might need to start two levels lower though. AID is kind of a tough one to use and it would defo eat your MP up, I can understand you eating tons of gold when using AID which is kind of not the right idea I wanted. Or smite should come before AID and AID can be bumped up one level.

[NiteHawk]

I changed smite to level 18 for both classes. Increased damage by 10 on pally and 15 on cleric, meaning pally has only +25 damage more which is OK. (Set damage regardless of INT/LEVEL). The fizzle rate is also in-line at level 18 too (aka little less so will perform better.).

Aid is level 19 now. This should ensure you'd use smite more often. Remember smite bypasses some MR too which is good 8) I think the changes should be OK.

[Man]

I changed smite to level 18 for both classes. Increased damage by 10 on pally and 15 on cleric, meaning pally has only +25 damage more which is OK. (Set damage regardless of INT/LEVEL). The fizzle rate is also in-line at level 18 too (aka little less so will perform better.).

Aid is level 19 now. This should ensure you'd use smite more often. Remember smite bypasses some MR too which is good 8) I think the changes should be OK.

That's great, thanks for the quick change.