Unaffect scaling

[CGI]

Understood - but a lot of the fun in these types of games is unlocking gear that makes your character better. For spellcasters, that benefit doesn't really exist (I guess you can count armor, but...)

[NiteHawk]

Understood - but a lot of the fun in these types of games is unlocking gear that makes your character better. For spellcasters, that benefit doesn't really exist (I guess you can count armor, but...)

Depending on when I revamp it I can make the weapon a little more useful for unaffecting/piercing but it will be at the expense of the class/int itself. It might work out though to round off the unaffected rates so they don't have so much jump though. Need to take a look at MR and pierce rates but have been focused on other stuff atm.

For damage, I can firmly say it will never happen because it's a bit too much work and I like it being different to be honest. There will be staves that give off a little more damage but these are special items, not common. Though, if it was the case, the only thing that would happen if we include staves in damage is that I would lower the overall damage and you would need an item to boost it back to where it is now. I would not give them more damage on to of what they do now.

[Terron]

thanks for the clarification, i knew something was off lol cuz what i had wasn't translating to game lol.

[NiteHawk]

thanks for the clarification, i knew something was off lol cuz what i had wasn't translating to game lol.

Yeah my bad, multiplying it would make it wacko and stave weapons would make a huge bonus which would be weird as hell. I can understand the formula still needs adjusting but that's for a near future thing.

[Terron]

But in max cases, it is 64.375 there, so 64.375/6 and 64.375 for min/max



Half orc knight with 12 wis = 37.5.... VS a gnome int 23 you have 22.25% MR rate.
Half orc knight with 10 wis = 31.25 .... VS a gnome int 23 you have 15.45% MR rate.
Assassin HO with 10 wis = 28.9 .. VS gnome int 23 you have 11.41% MR rate.
Goblin Knight with 16 wis = 59.5.. VS gnome int 23 you have 44.89% mr rate.
Human Knight with 20 wis = 68.75.. Vs gnome int 23 you have 53.53% mr rate.
Human Knight with 20 wis = 68.75.. Vs gnome int 23 you have 53.53% mr rate.
Elf Monk with 20 wis = 82.75.. Vs gnome int 23 you have 64.64% MR rate
Gnome Sorc with 22 wis = 98.72.. vs gnome int 23 you have 71.45% MR rate.

i was contemplating using a melee necromancer and using buffs/debuffs wither/rot/undead/blind to have a nice agility advantage. considering the points system i could make one with a few less points in int. after running all the numbers through this formula it seems almost impossible for anything under 22 int to be worth a damn especially if you are trying to debuff. debuffs seem to only calc out versus drake/saurian and half orcs. i dont know if this is an intention to deter anyone from going outside the norm or what. but wasting 10 stam in attempt to blind a decent MR monk in an event fight is completely one sided. youd be atleast mod before even succeeding.

the melee side of pvp has checks and balances, it has a base hit rate of 40% and goes +/- from there. spells however do not. there is no reason a mage should get an 84% hit rate versus 10 wisdom half orc its completely nuts. and even moreso when you factor 2 (22 wis 22int) mages blasting each other at a hit rate of approx. 25-27%.

wisdom should be the agility of the magic combat world but the exponential increase of class race and wis based MR adjustments is too much. 22 int should be cancelled out by 22 wis and be a 40% success rate, same as pvp in melee. MR should be treated like armor vs spells that decrease damage from spells.

an example of what i mean is a human monk with 20 wis is facing down a 22 int necromancer. the base 40% hit rate would be adjusted by the 2.0 factor(same as melee) and the necro would have a 44% chance to hit. that being said the monk has around 60% MR so would receive less damage from the spell.(possibly changes to just absorb 1 per 1%, so he receives 60 less damage from magic, or just -1 per point of the defensive roll so f the roll was 32 it only resisted 32 damage.)

im aware that some of the stupider races may need a few wisdom added to maxstats to make this the most balanced, but it sure isnt balanced atm so i think it would be worthwhile.

[NiteHawk]

But in max cases, it is 64.375 there, so 64.375/6 and 64.375 for min/max



Half orc knight with 12 wis = 37.5.... VS a gnome int 23 you have 22.25% MR rate.
Half orc knight with 10 wis = 31.25 .... VS a gnome int 23 you have 15.45% MR rate.
Assassin HO with 10 wis = 28.9 .. VS gnome int 23 you have 11.41% MR rate.
Goblin Knight with 16 wis = 59.5.. VS gnome int 23 you have 44.89% mr rate.
Human Knight with 20 wis = 68.75.. Vs gnome int 23 you have 53.53% mr rate.
Human Knight with 20 wis = 68.75.. Vs gnome int 23 you have 53.53% mr rate.
Elf Monk with 20 wis = 82.75.. Vs gnome int 23 you have 64.64% MR rate
Gnome Sorc with 22 wis = 98.72.. vs gnome int 23 you have 71.45% MR rate.

i was contemplating using a melee necromancer and using buffs/debuffs wither/rot/undead/blind to have a nice agility advantage. considering the points system i could make one with a few less points in int. after running all the numbers through this formula it seems almost impossible for anything under 22 int to be worth a damn especially if you are trying to debuff. debuffs seem to only calc out versus drake/saurian and half orcs. i dont know if this is an intention to deter anyone from going outside the norm or what. but wasting 10 stam in attempt to blind a decent MR monk in an event fight is completely one sided. youd be atleast mod before even succeeding.

the melee side of pvp has checks and balances, it has a base hit rate of 40% and goes +/- from there. spells however do not. there is no reason a mage should get an 84% hit rate versus 10 wisdom half orc its completely nuts. and even moreso when you factor 2 (22 wis 22int) mages blasting each other at a hit rate of approx. 25-27%.

wisdom should be the agility of the magic combat world but the exponential increase of class race and wis based MR adjustments is too much. 22 int should be cancelled out by 22 wis and be a 40% success rate, same as pvp in melee. MR should be treated like armor vs spells that decrease damage from spells.

an example of what i mean is a human monk with 20 wis is facing down a 22 int necromancer. the base 40% hit rate would be adjusted by the 2.0 factor(same as melee) and the necro would have a 44% chance to hit. that being said the monk has around 60% MR so would receive less damage from the spell.(possibly changes to just absorb 1 per 1%, so he receives 60 less damage from magic, or just -1 per point of the defensive roll so f the roll was 32 it only resisted 32 damage.)

im aware that some of the stupider races may need a few wisdom added to maxstats to make this the most balanced, but it sure isnt balanced atm so i think it would be worthwhile.

The reason to pick a half-orc is purely because it will do better against a ling, but a half orc would die to a gnome sorc. The gnome sorc in turn would most likely die to the ling. As an example anyways. You can't be good at everything, Half orcs are good physical bashers, but weaker at magic usage and resistance.

I agree the values need to be adjusted, but I disagree that it has to be the same as or similar to the dodge formula. There are also class and race values to take into consideration, which will be staying, though can be adjusted.

Their damage is also not as good as physical classes when it comes to the heavier classes because they pierce more. Aka not as strong but more consistent. I do understand the formula needs some tweaking though as I said, but I think INT vs WIS needs to have a higher base but you also need to factor in race/class on top of that too.

You should lose most of the time if you fight with a non-wisdom character or race, as it is the result of picking that said race though, just needs to be not 'so' one sided.

[Terron]

im not really gettin it, i understand you cant be good at everything.

half orcs blow, they are losing to lings on the regular. saurians have the edge on lings not horcs.

what you have is a race that opts for a 5% chance to win vs a ling for a -100% chance to survive magic. if that is the case the entire changelog for version 1.5.1 was unnecessary. if a horc/saurian lose 100% vs magic they should be winning 95%+ of melee.

if the extremes are meant to be why arent they full circle?

you play a chanter/necro: (usually gnome elf)
you get 90+% chance to win vs low MR high dps characters
you get about 10% to win vs high mr builds
you get roughly 50% chance to win vs another same class.

you play a top end high MR melee build;(usually ling/de/goblin atm)
you have a 90% chance to win vs magic
you have 40-45% chance to beat high dps
you have a 50% chance to beat a similar build

you play that epic half orc dps:
you kill similar builds 50%
you lose to every chanter ever 0%
you beat a ling warrior 45-55%
(delete this race and make something new.)

what you got is a skewed system where everyone plays the same 4-5 builds in endless repetition because you cant stray off of perfection. the melee standard has a sense of balance with hps and str in check by agility and hit rate. magic is off the scales and has too many exponential variables. not to mention mages typically have very high agility so the matches are a 2 way uphill battle for drake/saurian/horc to fight.

basically you have gnome elf casters, saurian ninjas and ling/DE ninjas, and a few barbs scattered about, and nothing else unless their owner already max leveled all the former. wheres all the druids bards guardians clerics and whatever else i forgot, etc? i can answer that they are only around for situational use.

either way MR should have the same effect vs spells as armor does vs melee attacks, and wisdom should be the dodge rate counter for magic's int. it isnt a "magic nerf", its a balance because mages will hit MR monks slighly easier and hit crappy mr characters a tad less but still plenty enough that a horc/saurian wont win very often. your tree of magic>no mr dps > high mr dps>magic will still be so, just not so over the top with 85% hit rates and stuff that isnt possible for the melee variant to achieve.

[Honzo]

either way MR should have the same effect vs spells as armor does vs melee attacks, and wisdom should be the dodge rate counter for magic's int.

Isn't it already like this in game? Its Int vs Wis for defense but Staves also give penetration, keep in mind. Agility is the dodge equivalent for physical dmg and I'm not exactly sure how armor works!

I'm not sure if I've seen you in a tournament before but I have ran many pvp events. Casters are absolute monsters, even against people with decent MR. At the end of the day everything should have counterplay and I encourage you to think outside of the box for character creation. You'd be surprised what can be great!

Oh...and there is a thing called spell absorption.

[Terron]

the only thing you can do outside the box is a strengthless guardian that attacks with smite over melee (only going to work vs crap wis) or a mage that doesnt +1 anything and opts for mass str to kill other mages because 40% hit rate with a staff is greater than the hit rate of slinging spells at each other. because even if you pick -3 int your buffs will still work. debuffs do not work with low int. you could make a mage with 10 agility and fight other mages with extra hps until they catch on to your weakness. or a melee necro that beats up half orcs only... but all of these "options" as u call them are so limited you might aswell ignore them.

log on and jot down the info of all the characters you see. (i do understand other characters have been trained to 25 before i started playing. i see them on occasionally a couple rangers thieves etc, just they arent used for anything, they arent in events they arent in key fights, they are barely logged on ever.)

mass elf/gnome chanters/necros
mass saurian monks
mass ling monks
and a few various slayers
and last but not least barbarians (seemingly the only class ingame that has any racial variance at all)

the rest have very scarce uses and plainly aren't used very often.
cleric for pvp wars, bard for group training, thief for a prayer there's some gold on mobs.

i've already trained 30 characters to 18-22, most i wont ever train again in the current settings. nor would i use them if they were 25. i wanted to hit 20 on them all, just some didn't offer anything at all to the playing field compared to other classes, especially monk. druid for 1, is outright awful. run around at level 18 and 25.4 agility and hit 2/10 on anything remotely decent exp. yes i can hit 100 or i can cure undead for 35 and never miss and gain more exp/time, using high int and ray is a much more feasible option until you try and fight someone with gimped dodge rate using ray or opt morph with horrible morph statistics.
it just doesn't fit because there is no ultimate caster race that only has 10 agility so the ultra Melee badasses can shine 99/100 fights. high mr/high agility monks have everything going for them. they only have 2 slight weaknesses, drake/saurian monks have a slight edge but it isnt set in stone like a chanter fighting a half orc.

you are promoting a 3 step system in which a mage kills dps and dps kills mr and mr kills mage. however dps doesnt always kill mr and magic always kills dps. heavy dps are lackluster especially when you die in 9 casts from a mage

as far as events ive been in every one i can hit at 6 pm. its an awful time for me or any other west coaster. but just cuz you arent counting 3 2 1 go! for me doesn't mean i havent had skirmishes in gy or keys ty. (also code the gd square to countdown for you and swap itself from nopk to pkat 0...its 2017 for gods sake ;P)

[Cerebrus]

Actually, from running Koth/Jr. Koth for months now, I've seen most every class participate including thieves and rangers. Badbonebear has won it a couple times as a ranger. Bards too.